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Zhivvy

US pastor to burn copies of the Koran on 11th September

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Just watching the TV news, a person has been killed in Afghnaistan, shot dead at a NATO base in the north of the country during protests over the burning.

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Spicy, I think you need to talk to that "pastor of evil" and teach him a few home truths. Thanks for the quotes
wink.gif

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[quote name='nikki1120 wrote:


barbara1 wrote:

Zhivvy wrote:

Claire T']The thing is terrorist and terrorism are everywhere.

 

Living in the UK I do remmber the IRA blowing up my beloved Manchester but you know what that doesn't mean I hate ALL the Irish people inthe world!

 

Same goes with ETA in Spain. One thing I vidily remeber seeing a wanted poster when walking through airport customs on the way into Barcalona!

 

(Both have hopfully given up arms fingers crossed it'll last)

 

 

and NO i'm not compearing this to what happend in 9/11 as I watched a DVD at a friends house wich was filmed with the firemen who had to deal with it and I cried hearing them bodies drop onto the roof of the lobby something I'll never forget.

 

BUT to blame a whole religion seriously America look beyond your own borders stop blaming inocent muslims who just want to lead a peacfull life and who don't want to hurt anyone. Do you think I should hate after the 7/7 bombings?? Maybe I could hate the people who did it for killing people who had no warning of it but to hate a whole releigion??

 

I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at here. In no way am I saying we should forget anything like 9/11 but at the same time gotta look around you are relise that this is happening EVERYWHERE! (I'm sure there are plenty of bombings in the world that have been done by Islamic extremists)

 

please feel free to have a go or tell me i'm wrong or sometihng and sorry about the typos it's one am need sleep bye

I was in Manchester for one of the IRA bombings of manchester - and it was not a nice experience - i was lucky enough to not be in the bomb's area, but heard and felt it which was bad enough - but like you say Claire that does not make me hate every irish or catholic person - a small minority is exactly that - a minority and the majority of religion is peaceful. And extremists of every religion in the world has removed themselves from what religion really stands for and violence has taken the place of love.

So no matter which religion is insulting another is wrong.

 

clearly we don hate all irish for the suffering the IRA brought to innocent peole. besides if we would, we would not be here!! or we would,  but only to bash the band...
Just don't forget most of us in the US are very much against what this man is trying to do......  it is just a few people...  I also believe most of us also are not against the Islamic Ctr being built anywhere they want to build it..including a few blocks from ground zero.  Our voices are just lost in the maelstrom surrounding this crazy man in Florida.  

Plus it is such a huge problem here that so much of our news is delivered by entertainment outlets...  they are marketing the news and spin it however they can to get the most drama out of it.  It is horrifying because people believe what they hear.  When we talk about free speech (which I believe in very strongly) if I were ever going to censor anybody it would be the clowns that distort the news so much.  

I have wondered if in other countries this is also a problem??  Fox news in particular over here, but they are not the only ones.   

 

Which is worse, news that is distorted by those seeking profit, or news that is censored by the government. Both are apalling, in my opinion......

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[quote name='xtraspicy62 wrote:


kings wrote:

nazhira']Ok, here I go

 

I don't believe a thing

 

The world trade center was imploted by the US gov itself, the rest were fantasy stories, excuses

Could you explain this comment. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

yes, naz, could you try and explain what word you were trying to use when you said the us government "imploted"...

can you use the bing translator where you are? http://www.microsofttranslator.com/

just type what you want to say in spanish on the left side and choose to have it translated into english on the right side of the translator.

If you cant, sweetie, can you just express what you are trying to say in your native language, and then one of us will translate it for you...

pretty please?

I want to understand you and sometimes meanings can get terribly lost in translation

 

 

Hey xtra ! Is my english that bad ? Sorry, I'm still learning

 

About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody.

In the same way this pastor's thing smells bad. Obama wants to retire troups from Iraq and suddenly this kind of things begin to happen.

Anyway, if this is only a crazy guy, just let's leave him with his madness. It's ridiculous the world being in alert with fear just for a crazy guy.

 

For xtra, I'll continue with my english lessons, don't worry,...LOL

 

Love you all

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Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

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Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

Sorry xtra. I don't know if you are american, did you feel offended because of my words ? I'm sorry if you were, my apologyze.

 

I've heard this from many documentary films, of course, they are not oficial.

But after analising it I think that's the truth. Reality is more complicated than our lives.

 

But I'm glad at the end, my english is not that bad, you understood me perfectly

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[quote name='nazhira wrote:


xtraspicy62']Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

Sorry xtra. I don't know if you are american, did you feel offended because of my words ? I'm sorry if you were, my apologyze.

 

I've heard this from many documentary films, of course, they are not oficial.

But after analising it I think that's the truth. Reality is more complicated than our lives.

 

But I'm glad at the end, my english is not that bad, you understood me perfectly

 

 

 

 

 

I have to interject this here:  it was not Iraq who we went to war with as the result of 9/11. The terrorists who attacked the US on 9/11 were from Afghanistan. We went to Afghanistan in search the terrorist group responsible, al Qaeda and that is who we were after, most specifically; their leader Bin Laden.

 

The Iraq war was something else entirely and not related to 9/11

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[quote name='nazhira wrote:


xtraspicy62']Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

Sorry xtra. I don't know if you are american, did you feel offended because of my words ? I'm sorry if you were, my apologyze.

 

I've heard this from many documentary films, of course, they are not oficial.

But after analising it I think that's the truth. Reality is more complicated than our lives.

 

But I'm glad at the end, my english is not that bad, you understood me perfectly

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no, naz, Im not upset with you as a person! i'm just trying to understand what is going on in the world, and how people come to the conclusions that they do.

I think we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as far as having an adult conversation, and sharing our thoughts and ideas, and information.

please dont ever apologize for having an opinion! We want to know what yourre thinking and feeling...

it helps to understand the world...because afterall, we are a global community on here!

its so interesting that you were educated by documentories. i love movies and documentories, and would like to know the title of the movies that expressed this point of view.

perhaps I can find them and rent them...i really would like to check out this point of view..

 

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*Taking note of long, EXTREMELY silent and pregnant pause in this conversation......*

I could begin but think I will pass, this time.
Hi security
i love all of your posts, because you write so well and i find you be an eloquent, and highly intelligent speaker. you're writings are in a league above the fray...you strike me as a professor maybe?

but please, do write what you wanted to share... I'm sure it would be nothing but helpful and informative, well written and interesting.

I always like to read your points, BC you make good ones...i like to exercise my mind and expand my horizons...

seriously! please help us out...i am the first to say i don't know everything....i want to know others and to understand them...
i think most of the posters here would concur that we are not close minded

 

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[quote name='xtraspicy62 wrote:


nazhira wrote:

xtraspicy62']Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

Sorry xtra. I don't know if you are american, did you feel offended because of my words ? I'm sorry if you were, my apologyze.

 

I've heard this from many documentary films, of course, they are not oficial.

But after analising it I think that's the truth. Reality is more complicated than our lives.

 

But I'm glad at the end, my english is not that bad, you understood me perfectly

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no, naz, Im not upset with you as a person! i'm just trying to understand what is going on in the world, and how people come to the conclusions that they do.

I think we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as far as having an adult conversation, and sharing our thoughts and ideas, and information.

please dont ever apologize for having an opinion! We want to know what yourre thinking and feeling...

it helps to understand the world...because afterall, we are a global community on here!

its so interesting that you were educated by documentories. i love movies and documentories, and would like to know the title of the movies that expressed this point of view.

perhaps I can find them and rent them...i really would like to check out this point of view..

 

 

Don't worry xtra ! We are all trying to understand what's going on in the world.

I agree with you we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as adults, sharing thoughts and information.

I know you want to know what I think and feel, that's why we are all here.

You' re right I've been educaed by documentories, but I've been educated by my parents, school, boyfriends, husband, broadcasters, mother in law, friends, television, university, job, supermarket, m dog, daughter, ping pong table, city, Argentina, England, Ireland, France, Polad, Brasil, family, sister, bellydancing, drama teacher, neighbour cat, street, house, english teacher, business, books, travelling, ...life it self.

I will never apologize for having an opinion, ... I will apologize if I've hurted your feelings.

 

Wait a litle while, I'll post the fim, and, after you've seem them we can talk about them.

 

Te quiero mucho amiga, creo que al final de todas estas discusiones, vos y yo terminaremos mejores amigas.

 

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Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

I wont answer this question out of repect to the people who lost their lives due to the 9/11 attacks. In short I cannot entertain for one second  the theory that the US Govt orchestrated the attack. frown.gif

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[quote name='nazhira wrote:


xtraspicy62 wrote:

nazhira wrote:

xtraspicy62']Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

Sorry xtra. I don't know if you are american, did you feel offended because of my words ? I'm sorry if you were, my apologyze.

 

I've heard this from many documentary films, of course, they are not oficial.

But after analising it I think that's the truth. Reality is more complicated than our lives.

 

But I'm glad at the end, my english is not that bad, you understood me perfectly

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no, naz, Im not upset with you as a person! i'm just trying to understand what is going on in the world, and how people come to the conclusions that they do.

I think we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as far as having an adult conversation, and sharing our thoughts and ideas, and information.

please dont ever apologize for having an opinion! We want to know what yourre thinking and feeling...

it helps to understand the world...because afterall, we are a global community on here!

its so interesting that you were educated by documentories. i love movies and documentories, and would like to know the title of the movies that expressed this point of view.

perhaps I can find them and rent them...i really would like to check out this point of view..

 

 

Don't worry xtra ! We are all trying to understand what's going on in the world.

I agree with you we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as adults, sharing thoughts and information.

I know you want to know what I think and feel, that's why we are all here.

You' re right I've been educaed by documentories, but I've been educated by my parents, school, boyfriends, husband, broadcasters, mother in law, friends, television, university, job, supermarket, m dog, daughter, ping pong table, city, Argentina, England, Ireland, France, Polad, Brasil, family, sister, bellydancing, drama teacher, neighbour cat, street, house, english teacher, business, books, travelling, ...life it self.

I will never apologize for having an opinion, ... I will apologize if I've hurted your feelings.

 

Wait a litle while, I'll post the fim, and, after you've seem them we can talk about them.

 

Te quiero mucho amiga, creo que al final de todas estas discusiones, vos y yo terminaremos mejores amigas.

 ya somos

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i did read in the paper yesterday this guy has received many death-threads already and he claims he's wearing a gun upon him. and i did wonder how he justifies being a man of god ... cause jesus told peter: they who use the sword will die by the sword!

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i did read in the paper yesterday this guy has received many death-threads already and he claims he's wearing a gun upon him. and i did wonder how he justifies being a man of god ... cause jesus told peter: they who use the sword will die by the sword!

So basically we could presume that he has pulled out of this stupidness through fear of his own life - but when he was told that this would put other's lives at risk he didn't care and said that it was necessary! - yeah, some real christian there - NOT!!

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Hi Spicy.  Those are nice words.  They are appreciated, and I thank you. :-)   But, I still think I will refrain from getting into the "9/11 Truther" conversation, if that is ok with you.


I will, however, share an op-ed on the book-burning topic.  I largely agree with the analysis of the writer below, and stated something similar earlier in the thread. I would probably be more neutral in my political tone then he is-- I am not entirely convinced this gentleman is not exercising his craft with a touch of partisanship.  But, I feel this issue merits rigorous and objective analysis, and I feel his conclusion comes quite close to getting it exactly right. 
____________________________________



Obama and the right to burn the Koran

Washington Post, Op-Eds 10 September
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/09/obama_and_the_right_to_burn_th.html


President Obama was certainly right to be disgusted by "Reverend" Terry Jones's threat to stage a public burning of the Koran, a plan that was mean, stupid, intolerant, and spookily evocative of Hitlerian book bonfires. But I am also troubled by Obama's efforts to hector Jones into changing his mind. Everyone should worry when presidents invoke wartime security, or similar arguments, against constitutionally protected free speech, even -- or especially -- when the speech is offensive, outrageous and unpopular.


Strictly speaking, there was nothing unconstitutional about Obama's campaign, abetted by an all-star cast of national security officials, to get Jones to back off. Presidents have free speech, too. But when was the last time an American citizen got a phone call from the Secretary of Defense urging him to call off a political demonstration? Invoking his status as commander-in-chief,
Obama accused Jones of, in effect, abetting America's enemies: "This kind of behavior or threats of action put our young men and women in harm's way. And it's also the best imaginable recruiting tool for al-Qaeda."


This was pretty heavy-handed use of the bully pulpit. The president seemed oblivious to the contradiction between his pressure on Jones and his view, repeated at
Friday's press conference, that the U.S. must strictly follow the Constitution when prosecuting terrorism suspects -- lest the terrorists win by getting us to curtail liberty. "We can't be frightened by a handful of people who are trying to do us harm," he said. Yet to the extent Obama opposed Jones's exercise of free speech -- including mere "threats of action" -- because it might trigger a violent reaction, he was expressing, and yielding to, fear of those very "people."


Obama should have condemned what Jones wanted to do, but defended unequivocally his right to do it.


In response to
calls for censorship from around the world, he should have explained clearly that the U.S. president doesn't have that power -- and that he's glad he doesn't. He should have declared that America is great in part because its people are free to study the Bible or the Torah or the Koran or the Constitution -- and, yes, within very wide limits, to burn them in protest. He might have added that many Muslim-majority countries could themselves benefit from more such freedom of thought, speech and expression.


Instead, he offered
the tepid affirmation, in an interview with ABC News, that "part of this country's history is people doing destructive or offensive or harmful things. And yet, we still have to make sure that we're following the laws. And that's part of what I love about this country."


Instead, the president of the United States broadcast his fear that a U.S. citizen's exercise of his liberty will provoke Muslim violence -- without even calling upon Muslims to refrain from such attacks, much less declaring that they would be completely unjustified, and correspondingly resisted.


Worst of all, Obama set a precedent for presidentially-encouraged self-censorship based on the anticipated mood swings of mobs and fanatics.


Terry Jones created a bad situation; the president's reaction may make it worse.


By Charles Lane  |  September 10, 2010; 5:20 PM ET
Categories: 
Lane  | Tags: Charles Lane

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Hi Spicy.  Those are nice words.  They are appreciated, and I thank you. :-)   But, I still think I will refrain from getting into the "9/11 Truther" conversation, if that is ok with you.

I will, however, share an op-ed on the book-burning topic.  I largely agree with the analysis of the writer below, and stated something similar earlier in the thread. I would probably be more neutral in my political tone then he is-- I am not entirely convinced this gentleman is not exercising his craft with a touch of partisanship.  But, I feel this issue merits rigorous and objective analysis, and I feel his conclusion comes quite close to getting it exactly right. 

____________________________________

 

 

 

Obama and the right to burn the Koran

Washington Post, Op-Eds 10 September

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/09/obama_and_the_right_to_burn_th.html

 

 

President Obama was certainly right to be disgusted by "Reverend" Terry Jones's threat to stage a public burning of the Koran, a plan that was mean, stupid, intolerant, and spookily evocative of Hitlerian book bonfires. But I am also troubled by Obama's efforts to hector Jones into changing his mind. Everyone should worry when presidents invoke wartime security, or similar arguments, against constitutionally protected free speech, even -- or especially -- when the speech is offensive, outrageous and unpopular.

Strictly speaking, there was nothing unconstitutional about Obama's campaign, abetted by an all-star cast of national security officials, to get Jones to back off. Presidents have free speech, too. But when was the last time an American citizen got a phone call from the Secretary of Defense urging him to call off a political demonstration? Invoking his status as commander-in-chief, Obama accused Jones of, in effect, abetting America's enemies: "This kind of behavior or threats of action put our young men and women in harm's way. And it's also the best imaginable recruiting tool for al-Qaeda."

This was pretty heavy-handed use of the bully pulpit. The president seemed oblivious to the contradiction between his pressure on Jones and his view, repeated at Friday's press conference, that the U.S. must strictly follow the Constitution when prosecuting terrorism suspects -- lest the terrorists win by getting us to curtail liberty. "We can't be frightened by a handful of people who are trying to do us harm," he said. Yet to the extent Obama opposed Jones's exercise of free speech -- including mere "threats of action" -- because it might trigger a violent reaction, he was expressing, and yielding to, fear of those very "people."

Obama should have condemned what Jones wanted to do, but defended unequivocally his right to do it.

In response to calls for censorship from around the world, he should have explained clearly that the U.S. president doesn't have that power -- and that he's glad he doesn't. He should have declared that America is great in part because its people are free to study the Bible or the Torah or the Koran or the Constitution -- and, yes, within very wide limits, to burn them in protest. He might have added that many Muslim-majority countries could themselves benefit from more such freedom of thought, speech and expression.

Instead, he offered the tepid affirmation, in an interview with ABC News, that "part of this country's history is people doing destructive or offensive or harmful things. And yet, we still have to make sure that we're following the laws. And that's part of what I love about this country."

Instead, the president of the United States broadcast his fear that a U.S. citizen's exercise of his liberty will provoke Muslim violence -- without even calling upon Muslims to refrain from such attacks, much less declaring that they would be completely unjustified, and correspondingly resisted.

Worst of all, Obama set a precedent for presidentially-encouraged self-censorship based on the anticipated mood swings of mobs and fanatics.

Terry Jones created a bad situation; the president's reaction may make it worse.

By Charles Lane  |  September 10, 2010; 5:20 PM ET

Categories:  Lane  | Tags: Charles Lane

Good article - and a balanced view of both sides of the argument and the double standards around this.

Was just wondering though .... in the UK we have the right of freedom of speech - something which I respect and believe in, but the are restrictions as shown below:

UK law imposes a number of limitations on freedom of speech not found in some other jurisdictions. For example, its laws recognise the crimes of incitement to racial hatred and incitement to religious hatred. UK laws on defamation are also considered  among the strictest in the Western world, imposing a high burden of proof on the defendant.

Which means that under UK law Pastor Jones would not have been able to do this. And I was wondering if there was any law lie this is the US that racial and religious hatred is not allowed.

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My question is this...........

 

WHO is behind putting the mosque on Ground Zero?

 

This makes all the difference.

 

If it is a local New York community of Muslims...let them put there.

 

If it is ANYONE else...then get f'ed.

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i did read the article, security and there are some valid points. but (and forgive me if i misunderstood) saying the president lacked to call upon the radical muslims to refrain attacks seems a little stupid? cause when someone you truly hate (like i guess those radicals hate the president even more than they hate the country) tells you not to do something, isnt that like provoking it even more?

as for what zhiv says, i think a civilized country needs those restrictions. and i know we in belgium have them too. we have this very radical political party (some call them racists, i do too) and they have been fined for distributing material/or stating opinions that inspired hate against immigrants and refugees. freedom of speech shouldnt be an escort to do whatever you want, or advertise whatever crazy/dangerous idea that comes up....

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[quote name='xtraspicy62 wrote:


nazhira wrote:

xtraspicy62 wrote:

nazhira wrote:

xtraspicy62']Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

Sorry xtra. I don't know if you are american, did you feel offended because of my words ? I'm sorry if you were, my apologyze.

 

I've heard this from many documentary films, of course, they are not oficial.

But after analising it I think that's the truth. Reality is more complicated than our lives.

 

But I'm glad at the end, my english is not that bad, you understood me perfectly

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no, naz, Im not upset with you as a person! i'm just trying to understand what is going on in the world, and how people come to the conclusions that they do.

I think we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as far as having an adult conversation, and sharing our thoughts and ideas, and information.

please dont ever apologize for having an opinion! We want to know what yourre thinking and feeling...

it helps to understand the world...because afterall, we are a global community on here!

its so interesting that you were educated by documentories. i love movies and documentories, and would like to know the title of the movies that expressed this point of view.

perhaps I can find them and rent them...i really would like to check out this point of view..

 

 

Don't worry xtra ! We are all trying to understand what's going on in the world.

I agree with you we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as adults, sharing thoughts and information.

I know you want to know what I think and feel, that's why we are all here.

You' re right I've been educaed by documentories, but I've been educated by my parents, school, boyfriends, husband, broadcasters, mother in law, friends, television, university, job, supermarket, m dog, daughter, ping pong table, city, Argentina, England, Ireland, France, Polad, Brasil, family, sister, bellydancing, drama teacher, neighbour cat, street, house, english teacher, business, books, travelling, ...life it self.

I will never apologize for having an opinion, ... I will apologize if I've hurted your feelings.

 

Wait a litle while, I'll post the fim, and, after you've seem them we can talk about them.

 

Te quiero mucho amiga, creo que al final de todas estas discusiones, vos y yo terminaremos mejores amigas.

 
ya somosHi xtra !

 

This is one of many videos, 

 

 

I thing it's divided in 9 parts.

 

I've watched one really interesting video but I can't find it now, I'll continue looking for it.

 

Bye friend

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My question is this...........

 

WHO is behind putting the mosque on Ground Zero?

 

This makes all the difference.

 

If it is a local New York community of Muslims...let them put there.

 

If it is ANYONE else...then get f'ed.

From what I understand it is a group of Muslims local to New York. The leader is the imam of a lower Manhattan mosque.

 

The actual site is not on Ground Zero but 2 blocks away.

 

If you want to read more about the proposed center, here is the link to their site: http://blog.park51.org/

 

What I think is sad is that there is all this controversy about this. In my opinion, if it were a Catholic church or another church for some sect of Christianity that was proposed for this same site, there wouldn't be any protest.

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[quote name='jbarnych wrote:


voxxiegirl']My question is this...........

 

WHO is behind putting the mosque on Ground Zero?

 

This makes all the difference.

 

If it is a local New York community of Muslims...let them put there.

 

If it is ANYONE else...then get f'ed.

From what I understand it is a group of Muslims local to New York. The leader is the imam of a lower Manhattan mosque.

 

The actual site is not on Ground Zero but 2 blocks away.

 

If you want to read more about the proposed center, here is the link to their site: http://blog.park51.org/

 

What I think is sad is that there is all this controversy about this. In my opinion, if it were a Catholic church or another church for some sect of Christianity that was proposed for this same site, there wouldn't be any protest.

 

hey Jen

Yeah I know what you mean.

 

The reason I ask this question is because apparently the ppl proposing to put the mosque there and funding it are groups in Afghan or Iraq (I don't even know the story)... but my cousin was saying this is why there is controversy... the group behind  putting the mosque there is in fact the same idiots that ran planes into the towers.

 

And this is f'ed up!

 

I also think if it is a local New York community of muslims... then maybe they should avoid the site knowing that it was a group of islamic extremists that caused all this mayhem in the first place...they should practice some sensitivity.

 

I am sure there are lots of other places in New York city where they can build this mosque - why they want to so close to ground zero ....... you know....i don't quite know how to articulate it....but it is sort of lacks sensitivity and tact ...... but at the same time, ppl for freedom etc will argue they have a right ...... BUT do you get my point??? They don't have to build it at this site.

 

Perhaps that is the point - true islam had nothing to do with what happened on sept 11 ...so why should they have to worry about causing a huff and puff and offending people.........

 

i don't know... way too much controversey.

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[quote name='voxxiegirl wrote:


jbarnych wrote:

voxxiegirl']My question is this...........

 

WHO is behind putting the mosque on Ground Zero?

 

This makes all the difference.

 

If it is a local New York community of Muslims...let them put there.

 

If it is ANYONE else...then get f'ed.

From what I understand it is a group of Muslims local to New York. The leader is the imam of a lower Manhattan mosque.

 

The actual site is not on Ground Zero but 2 blocks away.

 

If you want to read more about the proposed center, here is the link to their site:

 

What I think is sad is that there is all this controversy about this. In my opinion, if it were a Catholic church or another church for some sect of Christianity that was proposed for this same site, there wouldn't be any protest.

 

hey Jen

Yeah I know what you mean.

 

The reason I ask this question is because apparently the ppl proposing to put the mosque there and funding it are groups in Afghan or Iraq (I don't even know the story)... but my cousin was saying this is why there is controversy... the group behind  putting the mosque there is in fact the same idiots that ran planes into the towers.

 

And this is f'ed up!

 

I also think if it is a local New York community of muslims... then maybe they should avoid the site knowing that it was a group of islamic extremists that caused all this mayhem in the first place...they should practice some sensitivity.

 

I am sure there are lots of other places in New York city where they can build this mosque - why they want to so close to ground zero ....... you know....i don't quite know how to articulate it....but it is sort of lacks sensitivity and tact ...... but at the same time, ppl for freedom etc will argue they have a right ...... BUT do you get my point??? They don't have to build it at this site.

 

Perhaps that is the point - true islam had nothing to do with what happened on sept 11 ...so why should they have to worry about causing a huff and puff and offending people.........

 

i don't know... way too much controversey.

Muslims have been praying at that site for a couple of years now. Plans for building and Islamic center on this site have been in the works since at least last year, from what I've read with no controversy and no apparent opposition. It seems that the whole controversy seems to have started with an anti-Islamic blogger.

 

There is also another mosque 4 blocks from Ground Zero that has been there for 40 years, according to a CNN report I watched online. No one has said anything about them.

 

I really don't understand why all of these people are basically hated and mistrusted because of the actions of a few. It just seems silly to me. It would be like me blaming all 9 year old boys for something that one 9 year old boy did to me at one time...when I was about 15, a 9 year old boy came up behind me, managed to get a short length of rope around my neck and tried to strangle me by pulling the rope tight and then hanging from the ends to keep me from getting the rope off.

 

Maybe you think that I would feel different if I were in New York during 9/11 or if I personally knew someone that died that day...I honestly don't think my opinion would be any different than it is now.

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[quote name='nazhira wrote:


xtraspicy62 wrote:

nazhira wrote:

xtraspicy62 wrote:

nazhira wrote:

xtraspicy62']Naz wrote: "About the comment: I think the 9/11 atachs were an operation to justify the invasion to Iraq. This is dificult for me because I don't want to offend anybody."

 

Hi naz....to clarify, just wondering if you are saying that you think the united states of america murdered their own people? and did it to justify going to war with iraq?

 

if this is your belief, and we are not misunderstanding you, would it be safe to say that therefore there were no other terrorist attacks anywhere in europe, just government backed civilian murders so that AQ could be blamed?

 

Have the NATO governments gone insane?

 

does any one else out there know how a people could come to this conclusion and what are your takes on it?

Sorry xtra. I don't know if you are american, did you feel offended because of my words ? I'm sorry if you were, my apologyze.

 

I've heard this from many documentary films, of course, they are not oficial.

But after analising it I think that's the truth. Reality is more complicated than our lives.

 

But I'm glad at the end, my english is not that bad, you understood me perfectly

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no, naz, Im not upset with you as a person! i'm just trying to understand what is going on in the world, and how people come to the conclusions that they do.

I think we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as far as having an adult conversation, and sharing our thoughts and ideas, and information.

please dont ever apologize for having an opinion! We want to know what yourre thinking and feeling...

it helps to understand the world...because afterall, we are a global community on here!

its so interesting that you were educated by documentories. i love movies and documentories, and would like to know the title of the movies that expressed this point of view.

perhaps I can find them and rent them...i really would like to check out this point of view..

 

 

Don't worry xtra ! We are all trying to understand what's going on in the world.

I agree with you we are all doing quite well here on this thread, as adults, sharing thoughts and information.

I know you want to know what I think and feel, that's why we are all here.

You' re right I've been educaed by documentories, but I've been educated by my parents, school, boyfriends, husband, broadcasters, mother in law, friends, television, university, job, supermarket, m dog, daughter, ping pong table, city, Argentina, England, Ireland, France, Polad, Brasil, family, sister, bellydancing, drama teacher, neighbour cat, street, house, english teacher, business, books, travelling, ...life it self.

I will never apologize for having an opinion, ... I will apologize if I've hurted your feelings.

 

Wait a litle while, I'll post the fim, and, after you've seem them we can talk about them.

 

Te quiero mucho amiga, creo que al final de todas estas discusiones, vos y yo terminaremos mejores amigas.

 
ya somos
Hi xtra !

 

This is one of many videos, 

 

 

I thing it's divided in 9 parts.

 

I've watched one really interesting video but I can't find it now, I'll continue looking for it.

 

Bye friend

 

 

 

 

There was a documentary I watched ..i think on the discovery or history channel...that scientifically bebunked all these conspiracy theories about the 9/11 attacks......it was hard to dispute any of their conclusions.

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