phill pohl

[EXPLETIVE DELETED] holding cameras up

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StinkyJay    0
1 minute ago, mich40 said:

That does not mean that we encourage or agree with their activity, but we do provide the information for those who do wish to follow along.

The second part of this sentence contradicts the first part of the sentence.

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enriquediaz    0
25 minutes ago, mich40 said:

... That does not mean that we encourage or agree with their activity, but we do provide the information for those who do wish to follow along.

We'll just have to pleasantly disagree on the impact and interpretation of publishing this activity and thanking them their efforts.

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mich40    71
9 minutes ago, StinkyJay said:

The second part of this sentence contradicts the first part of the sentence.

I provide links that I find via Twitter in the live threads for people who wish to watch them. However, I don't ask people to do them, nor do I personally understand why someone would want to hold up their phone during the whole show; but that's  their prerogative and the age we live in. When I thank them, it is on behalf of the people who have watched them and enjoyed them. 

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mich40    71
1 minute ago, enriquediaz said:

We'll just have to pleasantly disagree on the impact and interpretation of publishing this activity and thanking them their efforts.

Agreed. Just keep in mind that whether we provide the links and thank them or not does not impact who/how many choose to do the live streams at the show. 

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enriquediaz    0
1 minute ago, mich40 said:

Agreed. Just keep in mind that whether we provide the links and thank them or not does not impact who/how many choose to do the live streams at the show. 

Really? Do you seriously think that joe/jane public would stand at a concert periscoping for 5, 10, 15 minutes at a time if nobody was watching? And if not for twitter, Facebook, U2.com, etc sharing this information how else would people find out?

Anyway, you can have the last word if you wish as I don't think there will be any sort of common understanding on this point. (and I'm ok with that - seriously.)  

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StinkyJay    0
2 hours ago, mich40 said:

I provide links that I find via Twitter in the live threads for people who wish to watch them. However, I don't ask people to do them, nor do I personally understand why someone would want to hold up their phone during the whole show; but that's  their prerogative and the age we live in. When I thank them, it is on behalf of the people who have watched them and enjoyed them. 

We will have to agree to disagree.  To me, you're enabling a practice that the band hates and robs live shows of their energy.

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bigwave    137

what mich said. Understand not everyone wants to tune in and follow along with everything song by song, but we try to cater also for those that do.. 

Personally, I like to listen to the mixlr audio and look out for good photos, comments as its happening... feel part on the event, might sound silly to some... helps me feel connected..

I get it too that some get annoyed at the whole social media thing.. there is a happy medium somewhere.. maybe.

 

 

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504jumper    0
2 hours ago, bigwave said:

what mich said. Understand not everyone wants to tune in and follow along with everything song by song, but we try to cater also for those that do.. 

Personally, I like to listen to the mixlr audio and look out for good photos, comments as its happening... feel part on the event, might sound silly to some... helps me feel connected..

I get it too that some get annoyed at the whole social media thing.. there is a happy medium somewhere.. maybe.

 

 

 

If there is, I have no idea where that would be. But I agree that this whole social media thing is not going anywhere. The best thing to do is try and figure out how to mke peace with it. I'm not a Luddite, but a part of me does long for the days before smartphones and social...but only during U2 shows.  

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ddarroch    0

Maybe the only chance of a happy medium would be if U2 streamed their concerts on u2.com. They had the Meerkat song last tour, why not more? Who would watch overexposed shaky cam periscope feeds, often miles away with hands & heads in the way, if they could watch pro shot footage, with multiple angles, near & far from the band? If the band streamed the shows, nobody would watch the periscopes feeds. If nobody's watching these feeds, people will stop periscoping. Do this, & try to get security to enforce no videoing near the rails (a little bit impossible), then there wouldn't be much decent footage anyway.

Talking about decent footage, I'm guilty of watching periscope, & even videoing for YouTube. I was watching periscope of the Santa Clara show, from some woman right on the front rail, right near Edge. If you are going to film, at least learn a bit about how cameras work. Pretty much everyone overexposes the shot horribly, so the band members are totally blown out & look like ghosts. Looks horrible! Romi is the worst of them. He films at a lot of shows. Not full shows, but many songs. Not just U2 shows, many other concerts too. Has lots of followers. But just about all the footage is overexposed, except when he zooms in, as the aperture of the lens closes automatically. If someone is going to film so much, at least learn about exposure levels, so the footage isn't so crappy. Shoot manual, & if you're not up to that, at least dial the exposure compensation down.

Plus, I'd never hold my camera above my head to film. So inconsiderate! I wouldn't even hold it at eye level to film, as even that can interfere with people's views (& my own experience). I filmed one i+e show, in it's entirety. But I attached the camera to the rail, below chest height, set it & forgot it. Didn't interfere with anyone's experience of the show, or mine much.

Edited by ddarroch

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MikeTighe    0

As a millenial, I feel this is an affliction that curses us all. It's not just gigs. How can you be moved by something if you're constantly trying to record it? 

It gets ridiculous, especially with engagements and things that are supposed to be sacred live events. If my girlfriend proposed to me and brought a film crew, not only would I say no, but some expensive equipment would get damaged. 

Few things on this earth beat being in the moment when 'streets' opens. Why you'd want to experience that behind a screen is beyond me. 

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rlj1010    0

I recently went to two different comedy shows.  One by Dave Chappelle, and another by Chris Rock.   They both impose a very strict No-Cell-Phone rule.  Everybody is told to leave their phones at home, or in their car.   But for people who simply must have their phones on them, they are required to check their phone in a locked "Yondr" pouch.   You get to keep the phone with you, in the locked pouch, but the only way to take the phone out is to go to the lobby to unlock it.  

(If anyone is caught with an unlocked phone inside the seating area, they are ejected from the show, no refund.)

It was sooooooo refreshing to be at a show with zero phones lit up and people were actually PAYING ATTENTION, and WATCHING THE SHOW!!!

It makes more sense to use this policy for comedians as their sets are ruined if their material gets out and spoiled on YouTube.   But still, I'd love to see this start happening at concerts too.   I realize it's logistically unfeasible to do this at a stadium, but I hope this trend spreads.

Edited by rlj1010

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StinkyJay    0

Just because social media isn't going anywhere doesn't mean the practice needs to be tolerated or enabled.

Ignoring for a second that the practice is flat out piracy and wholly illegal in the US, it's still very distracting to both the fans and the band.  Just because there's a selfish few who wish to engage in this practice doesn't mean they need to given the means to do it.

I agree with rlj1010.  Ban it all.  Provide a means to lock up your phone at the venue and if you're in the GA or RZ, no cell phones.  

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phill pohl    0

Just watch a streets video its gone  from watching a crowd go berserk  bouncing all over the place to a mass of statues  holding their phones up..May as well just watch videos why bother going. 

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bigwave    137

In defence of those who use cameras, phones, sometimes I have been at a show and really wanted others to know what I was experiencing, right there right then. I am conscious of others around me and try to be discrete, never in others faces, there ought to be some kind of protocol for your fellow concert go-ers, but who is going to enforce that? 

People get exited, and yes sometimes selfish, its your moment after all.. but that does cut both ways, for the ones not wanting to capture the moment with technology, other than that which we carry in our memory bank.

 

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rlj1010    0

At the very least, if you simply must use it at the show, turn down the screen brightness as much as you can, but still be able to see.    It's less distracting.

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504jumper    0
5 hours ago, StinkyJay said:

Just because social media isn't going anywhere doesn't mean the practice needs to be tolerated or enabled.

Ignoring for a second that the practice is flat out piracy and wholly illegal in the US, it's still very distracting to both the fans and the band.  Just because there's a selfish few who wish to engage in this practice doesn't mean they need to given the means to do it.

I agree with rlj1010.  Ban it all.  Provide a means to lock up your phone at the venue and if you're in the GA or RZ, no cell phones.  

StinkyJay, in this particular situation what is tolerated or not, would be up to the band, which includes management and/or the venue.  If Bono felt that this ballooning trend of recording/periscoping/tweeting/etc. every single second of the show becomes too much of a distraction, he may do something about it.  If he and the band decide that performing into a sea of raised smartphones is stealing from the show’s energy and bans it, I’d be okay with it.  Personally, I managed to do fine without it from Joshua tree ’87 to Elevation ’01.  I remember snapping a few pictures with my Motorola V551 wireless phone during Vertigo ’05, but it stayed in my pocket nearly the whole night.  However by the 360 Tour ’09, I had an iPhone and took many pictures that night.  I wanted to have photos from the show and cameras were allowed.  I can’t remember when they were allowed, but I always thought the band let fans bring them insteading of prohibiting them.

As far as piracy goes, if the band/management decide it is the type piracy that is a problem, I think that may bring this whole social thing to an end at their shows.  The public outcry would be big and loud (I’d imagine) and the negative reaction from a part of the population would be something that the band would take into account before instituting any type of ban.  Again, it would be okay by me.  I’m fine with leaving my phone in the car.

I read that Prince prohibited smartphones/recording devices at his shows and was very strict about it.  If U2 were to do the same thing it would have to be just as strict.  Fans would need to clear a security screening.  Folks with phones would need to have them locked up or return them to their cars.  Obviously clear instructions would need to provided ahead of time so everyone would know, but there still would be delays.  Would this be better?  Maybe.  It would mean not being able to take pictures with my digital camera, so that would be a bummer.  But it wouldn’t stop me from going to a show.  Ultimately, I would accept it and adapt.  But the only way it would work is a complete ban for the entire tour.  I would be more for it than against it.

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Grande 3:16    5

Security pounced on anyone with cameras at the Popmart show I went to, but I think that was the venue's policy more than the bands.

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504jumper    0
17 hours ago, Grande 3:16 said:

Security pounced on anyone with cameras at the Popmart show I went to, but I think that was the venue's policy more than the bands.

Yes, I remember the No Camera Policy during the PopMart show here in the States as well.  I saw them at Oakland Coliseum back '97 (can't believe that makes it 20 years) and I contemplated on sneaking in a disposable camera, but decided against it because I was concerned about getting kicked out and the cameras took lousy pictures.

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vertigojds    1

For what it's worth, I hate all of this photography at the shows these days.  I understand wanting a memento of the show, but it's turned into this bizarre thing where a large number of people seemingly aren't there to see the show, they're there to show other people they went to the show. 

Two things stood out for me about this from the 2015 tour.  On the one night I had Red Zone tickets, the Edge walked right by us and stopped to do a solo.  Everyone other than my guest and I had a phone held up in the air at that moment.  What a strange difference from when I was in the exact same floor spot on the 2001 tour; when Edge walked by to do a solo, everyone reached out to him, and he got closer, and even did a round of handshakes and high fives between songs.  There used to be a give and take between the band and the audience, and when you were up close on the floor, it felt like there was a real connection.  I was on the floor five times in 2015, and not once did I feel that same connection with the band.  It didn't matter that I didn't have a phone out if everyone else around me did; the band was no longer engaging the audience directly or being engaged by the audience.

The one moment that really killed me was during All I Want Is You... I waited almost 20 years to finally hear the band play that song at a show I was at, and the woman in front of me on the floor started leaning on me and using my body to steady herself so she could take photos or video of the song, with her phone held directly in front of my face so that I couldn't see.  I tried asking politely but she didn't acknowledge my existence.  I took a step away, and she followed.  This woman was a complete stranger but felt completely entitled to block my entire view and use my body to help get better photos.  I finally felt that I had no choice but to gently but firmly push her limbs off of my body, and she just completely freaked out and started screaming at me about how I was ruining her show and had no right to be there.  I received no help from security (who were oblivious) or fellow fans.  I can't imagine this happening when I saw them in 2001 or 2005, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again now.  It didn't matter that I paid for a ticket to see the show.  It didn't matter that her behavior might have been disruptive to anyone around her.  All that mattered was that she felt entitled to do whatever she wanted in that moment, and that was the only consideration that mattered.  I think of the phones as being part of a larger entitlement syndrome - the people taking those photos and blocking everyone else's views have an overwhelming sense of entitlement in that moment.  There's no longer a sense of community among fans at shows; it's "me me me".  I remember a time when if one fan had a particularly clever sign or momento they wanted to get to the band, the fans around them would band together to try to help, either by helping hold up that sign, or by helping to pass a gift to the stage, or whatever else it was.  That doesn't happen anymore.

And I don't think the band really dislike phones at the show.  If they did, why would all of their social media accounts encourage people to use them?  Every show day for the 2015 tour, the U2 website here, and their official pages on Facebook and Twitter would encourage people to take pictures and video and to post them here and other places.  The band's representatives directly encourage it.  Moderators at this official site - employees of the band (whether or not they're paid, they are working for an entity that is officially connected to the band) - encourage this distracting behavior by constantly posting links to different photos and live feeds as the shows are happening.  The community here may be part of the problem; some people here act as if they have an inalienable right to watch the show at home while it's happening.  Every time you click on a live video link from a show, you are encouraging someone at the concert to make the show more difficult to enjoy for everyone around them for the sake of you seeing it at home.  And still, for each and every show, there will be video links being freely shared here, along with encouragement to keep them coming.

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peterferris8    49

I feel you on that one, vertigojds. Concert audiences in general seem to have gotten ruder over the years. I saw Elbow in London a few months ago, and was singing along with enthusiasm as I do, then the bloke next to me turned round and shouted in my ear "Can you turn it down a bit? I want to hear him singing, not you." Me being way too polite to stick up for myself, I complied, but I really wish I hadn't. Stuff like what's been mentioned in the thread (especially in vertigojds's comment above mine) is why I prefer going to small local gigs these days.

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vertigojds    1

Thanks Peter, it's nice not to be alone in this.

Going to a live concert used to be my very favorite thing to do in the world.  15 years ago, I was seeing dozens of shows a year, big bands, smaller bands, at sports arenas, fancy theaters and hole-in-the-wall clubs, and everything in between.  Some were standing room only that I waited hours for, some were reserved seating that I walked in at the last moment for.  

Back then, my biggest concerns going to a show were (if it was a club show) whether it would end before public transportation ended for the night or if I'd be stuck paying for a cab or (if it was a seated show) whether the seats would be too small and whether I'd be sitting next to a large fellow spilling over into my seat.  Now, it seems almost every aspect of going to a show is some form of nightmare.  Automated ticket bots and states' refusal to enforce scalping laws already in existence mean that it's a brutal struggle to even get tickets at face value.  Physically entering a venue is more difficult, from increased security requirements to the congestion they cause.  (But the security must not be that important, since one of the local LiveNation owned venues here has started what I assume will be the next trend, pay $10 extra via Ticketmaster to skip waiting in line.)  You're not allowed to bring food into most venues, but most venues now require you be there so far in advance of the start time that getting dinner beforehand is difficult, so you're probably going to be ripped off getting a quick bite to eat once inside.  And then, when you finally make it to your seats or standing room area, some jerk is probably going to be standing in front of you holding their phone over their head blocking your view.  Good luck finding an usher or a security person who will do anything at all.  (I was at a stadium concert where "no photography" was clearly printed on the ticket, and the person sitting in front of me kept turning around to take a picture of the crowd at the stadium - not the stage itself - and kept blinding me with the flash that he was setting off a foot from my face.  It took me the length of one song to find a security person, and even then, they refused to take action against this person.)  It doesn't matter if I'm seeing a cheap concert in a tiny venue or an expensive one at a large venue - no one seems to be paying attention anymore.  At best, they watch the hit single and then tune out the rest.  Whether it's taking pictures, obstructing other people's view, talking/screaming to be heard above the music, posting pictures from the show as its happening or responding to unrelated texts or emails, no one is watching the band.

When I saw U2 for the first time, in 1997, the top ticket price was $50 and everyone paid attention to the show.  When I saw U2 in 2015, the top ticket price was $350 and it felt like no one was paying attention to the show.

I would be very, very happy to trade not knowing the band's setlist until the concert is actually finished, and not seeing videos or photos until the next day or never, if it meant that I could enjoy a show while actually at the show again.

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bigwave    137
8 hours ago, vertigojds said:

Moderators at this official site - employees of the band (whether or not they're paid, they are working for an entity that is officially connected to the band) - encourage this distracting behavior by constantly posting links to different photos and live feeds as the shows are happening.  The community here may be part of the problem; some people here act as if they have an inalienable right to watch the show at home while it's happening.  Every time you click on a live video link from a show, you are encouraging someone at the concert to make the show more difficult to enjoy for everyone around them for the sake of you seeing it at home.  And still, for each and every show, there will be video links being freely shared here, along with encouragement to keep them coming.

thats us told then..

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allyson2008    7

I think I've already said this in another thread, but it is possible to take photos and / or do a live stream without bothering anyone. Hold the phone at eye or chest level, hold your elbows in (this will give you more stability with the camera, too), tilt it upward and do your thing. I streamed part of a concert a few months ago (it's a relatively unknown band and I think they deserve more recognition, so my intention was to hopefully let others see how cool they are). No one's view was obstructed in the process. Also, I didn't stare at the phone the whole time either. I held it in place and glanced down a few times to make sure everything was still in focus.

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scoot430    0

I've seen a few acts - Steely Dan and Prince among them - where they strictly state "no recording."   I believe Radiohead requested this too on the last tour.  It really improves the experience seeing the show.  There will always be a few crafty people who still manage to film (which is great for people at home watching Periscope or youtube) but 95% of the cell phone stuff ends.  The truth is people are not going to watch these videos or look at the pictures very often.  U2 should definitely move in this direction with an explicitly stated policy on tickets, in emails, projected on the screen before the show..  "The band hates the filming" is not something the average person knows about; I didn't until reading this thread, and I've been seeing them since 1985.

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