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[EXPLETIVE DELETED] holding cameras up

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Yeah...it was frustrating last night. A lot of my time watching them on the b-stage(where I was) was spent trying to peer around cellphones. At one point Bono was right in front of me and I couldn't actually see him because of an iPhone 7 Plus periscoping the moment blocking him out. It's sad I can be at the concert and have to look at someone's phone screen to be able to see what is right in front of me. I think people should take a few pictures and then just enjoy the show. 

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Even if you're not blocking anyone's view with a device, those things still kick off an incredible amount of brightness. I wish it weren't the case, but I find it hard not to be distracted by all of these tiny flashlights that seem closer and brighter to me than the stage lighting. 

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20 hours ago, vertigojds said:

Thanks Peter, it's nice not to be alone in this.

Going to a live concert used to be my very favorite thing to do in the world.  15 years ago, I was seeing dozens of shows a year, big bands, smaller bands, at sports arenas, fancy theaters and hole-in-the-wall clubs, and everything in between.  Some were standing room only that I waited hours for, some were reserved seating that I walked in at the last moment for.  

Back then, my biggest concerns going to a show were (if it was a club show) whether it would end before public transportation ended for the night or if I'd be stuck paying for a cab or (if it was a seated show) whether the seats would be too small and whether I'd be sitting next to a large fellow spilling over into my seat.  Now, it seems almost every aspect of going to a show is some form of nightmare.  Automated ticket bots and states' refusal to enforce scalping laws already in existence mean that it's a brutal struggle to even get tickets at face value.  Physically entering a venue is more difficult, from increased security requirements to the congestion they cause.  (But the security must not be that important, since one of the local LiveNation owned venues here has started what I assume will be the next trend, pay $10 extra via Ticketmaster to skip waiting in line.)  You're not allowed to bring food into most venues, but most venues now require you be there so far in advance of the start time that getting dinner beforehand is difficult, so you're probably going to be ripped off getting a quick bite to eat once inside.  And then, when you finally make it to your seats or standing room area, some jerk is probably going to be standing in front of you holding their phone over their head blocking your view.  Good luck finding an usher or a security person who will do anything at all.  (I was at a stadium concert where "no photography" was clearly printed on the ticket, and the person sitting in front of me kept turning around to take a picture of the crowd at the stadium - not the stage itself - and kept blinding me with the flash that he was setting off a foot from my face.  It took me the length of one song to find a security person, and even then, they refused to take action against this person.)  It doesn't matter if I'm seeing a cheap concert in a tiny venue or an expensive one at a large venue - no one seems to be paying attention anymore.  At best, they watch the hit single and then tune out the rest.  Whether it's taking pictures, obstructing other people's view, talking/screaming to be heard above the music, posting pictures from the show as its happening or responding to unrelated texts or emails, no one is watching the band.

When I saw U2 for the first time, in 1997, the top ticket price was $50 and everyone paid attention to the show.  When I saw U2 in 2015, the top ticket price was $350 and it felt like no one was paying attention to the show.

I would be very, very happy to trade not knowing the band's setlist until the concert is actually finished, and not seeing videos or photos until the next day or never, if it meant that I could enjoy a show while actually at the show again.

Sadly vertigojds, I believe the concert experience some of us (like you & I) have known and loved is a thing of the passed.  It has been replaced by something that was started by technology that was supposed to be be helpful--and it probably was--but there was also and intended consequence of all these smart devices, mobile apps and social media: the unending self-promotion.  Somewhere along the way, it was no longer about going to a U2 show, but letting it be known that you were at a U2 show.  Sure, it was also about sharing your experience with friends and family, but it has also been about getting Likes and growing your base of followers.  The nefariousness of this is that it has pervaded everything.  We all have been affected by this condition and it has literally changed our behavior. 

I too am guilty of this as I have a Facebook, Twitter and Instagram account (no Periscope, though).  I originally began taking pictures at U2 shows to have content for my U2 fan blog, and I actually thought that was a good thing.  But I missed a good amount of the i+e show because I was too engrossed in taking as many pictures as possible.  But you're right, I wasn't pay attention as much as I used to.  During the show last Wednesday at Levi's Stadium, it was a little sad to see how many smartphones were raised.  You could tell it Bono noticed.  I brought my camera and did take pictures (we were at Club Level) but after a certain point, I stopped.  I had to force myself to remember why I came to the show in the first place and tell myself I had plenty of pictures.  

I hope you get to enjoy the show, wherever you see them.  

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I agree wholeheartedly with all of you.  I was at the Santa Clara show, GA just to the right of the B stage. I am guilty of taking 5 pictures while a group of 4 women filmed nearly the entire show right in front of us,  I craned and twisted to see the show.  A man standing behind my husband kept hitting him in the back of the head with his elbows when he was trying to film whatever was happening.  Politely asking them to stop has no affect.  U2 concerts have always been a spiritual experience for me, since 1984, they still are to a certain degree but watching the show through or around someone else's screen and the increasing rudeness and inconsideration of the GA crowd (at least the people around us) is very disheartening.    It's not going to stop me from going of course, but I so miss the camaraderie that existed during the show. It's still there in the GA line but it seems like once you get in to the venue *poof* it's gone.

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On 5/19/2017 at 9:01 AM, bigwave said:

In defence of those who use cameras, phones, sometimes I have been at a show and really wanted others to know what I was experiencing, right there right then. I am conscious of others around me and try to be discrete, never in others faces, there ought to be some kind of protocol for your fellow concert go-ers, but who is going to enforce that? 

People get exited, and yes sometimes selfish, its your moment after all.. but that does cut both ways, for the ones not wanting to capture the moment with technology, other than that which we carry in our memory bank.

 

The bolded is the problem.  It's not about what YOU want and it's not YOUR moment.

It's everyone's moment.  Yours, mine and most importantly, the bands moment.  Lot's of what you wanted, not so much what other's around you or what the band wants.

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2 minutes ago, StinkyJay said:

The bolded is the problem.  It's not about what YOU want and it's not YOUR moment.

It's everyone's moment.  Yours, mine and most importantly, the bands moment.  Lot's of what you wanted, not so much what other's around you or what the band wants.

Try to steal it from me.

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2 minutes ago, bigwave said:

Try to steal it from me.

Exactly my point.  Which is why I am hopeful the band bans the practice.

You seem to not care how recording the show affects those around you or the band.  That's why we can't have nice things.

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Just now, StinkyJay said:

Exactly my point.  Which is why I am hopeful the band bans the practice.

You seem to not care how recording the show affects those around you or the band.  That's why we can't have nice things.

Nice things?

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On 5/19/2017 at 8:11 AM, rlj1010 said:

I recently went to two different comedy shows.  One by Dave Chappelle, and another by Chris Rock.   They both impose a very strict No-Cell-Phone rule.  Everybody is told to leave their phones at home, or in their car.   But for people who simply must have their phones on them, they are required to check their phone in a locked "Yondr" pouch.   You get to keep the phone with you, in the locked pouch, but the only way to take the phone out is to go to the lobby to unlock it.  

(If anyone is caught with an unlocked phone inside the seating area, they are ejected from the show, no refund.)

It was sooooooo refreshing to be at a show with zero phones lit up and people were actually PAYING ATTENTION, and WATCHING THE SHOW!!!

It makes more sense to use this policy for comedians as their sets are ruined if their material gets out and spoiled on YouTube.   But still, I'd love to see this start happening at concerts too.   I realize it's logistically unfeasible to do this at a stadium, but I hope this trend spreads.

I'd love to see something like this done.  And the band/management could do it, if they really wanted to (they may worry it would piss some people off).  The core issue, IMHO, as some others have said, is that it directly affects the sightlines of others around the "filming/chronically picture-taking" person(s) in question.  I don't see how this is defensible under ANY circumstances--??  Yo--Bono, U2--make this stop!  Apparently you guys don't really like this obnoxious trend either (?!)

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my 2 cents, for if it matters...

as of right now, the thread is going for 3 pages and it could very well be an eternal circle of pointing fingers to those who take cameras or phones to a show... but the issue (if there's one) will remain...

certain things are within our control, most are not - but forcing our point of view to effect a change into others may not be the solution...

I don't know what could be the way to solve it (again, if there's a thing to be solved - in the sense "number of people that are against / number of those that are for vs those who doesn't think about cameras and phones") but getting angry and yelling at others may not be the way to go...

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Some would say ignorant selfish people blocking everyones view deserve shouting at.

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9 hours ago, bigwave said:

Nice things?

When someone (kids usually) ruins things for you, it's "why I can't have nice things"

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3 hours ago, Grande 3:16 said:

When someone (kids usually) ruins things for you, it's "why I can't have nice things"

Well put.

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OK. I've been going to shows since the 70's. I was a deadhead for all the years they were playing and I love to dance. I have spent many years dancing at concerts and have really tried to be careful and stay within my space as best I can. I'm aware that sometimes I have bumped in to someone. I don't intend to do that and always then adjust in order to not do it again. In LA in front at main stage the man behind me was shooting photos on his iphone. He was reaching around and over me and I bumped in to him several times. This guy was in my space. I could not adjust to not bump him. He told me I had plenty of room. We spent many hours in lines, in hot sun, enjoying the wait making new friends and visiting with old ones. The security guards were so cooperative outside, they really cared about us getting in ok, and we did. Once inside though when people started cutting in front of us (we were one back from rail and did not want to stand on the black flooring at rail) security would not remove people for cutting. How much space is one entitiled to on a GA floor? And if there is a square on the ground showing that amount of space, the square must go all the way up and around me. These people reaching around us to take photos is so very distracting to me. I spend the time to get to where I want to be in the show to enjoy every second of U2's music. The venue is my church and the music , the hymns. It means so much to me. When someone's rudeness awakens this Irish girl's temper I get mad and it wrecks my show.

I have a lot more to say and have been trying to put it to words, I'll start with this. Thanks

 

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On 5/23/2017 at 6:49 PM, bigwave said:

Try to steal it from me.

Bigwave, I honestly don't get it.  Yeah, OK, you and others may sometimes want to film the band, but how can you justify blocking others' view?  To do so is no small thing--it really affects the experience of the "view-blocked" party.  And just to be super-clear, I'm not talking about a brief pic here and there--I'm talking about when people do this for significantly longer.

Edited by mike7man

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59 minutes ago, mike7man said:

Bigwave, I honestly don't get it.  Yeah, OK, you and others may sometimes want to film the band, but how can you justify blocking others' view?  To do so is no small thing--it really affects the experience of the "view-blocked" party.  And just to be super-clear, I'm not talking about a brief pic here and there--I'm talking about when people do this for significantly longer.

If you read back I never say anything about blocking anyone else view.. or condoning it. I always try to be aware of others around me, even if they may be too into the swing of things to notice anyone else around them... I even been known to mosh.. quite recently in fact at The Alarm. My back didn't like it next morning, but it was mint.

What I was trying to get across is that I, and others sometimes want to share the moment with others, scoping, photo whatever. It don't always work out, but the desire is from a good place, not with the intention of ruining it for anyone else. The opposite.

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I took a small stand at tonight's show and pushed down as many phones as I could reach in front of my view. I paid good cash to attend this show and waited 30 years to get there - I wasn't going to have it ruined by watching someone else's bright screen recording crappy video in front of me. I asked the people to just watch the show. I got a lot of indignant looks and such, but the people around me started to drop the phones and get into the show. Stop tolerating it, say something and also DO SOMETHING! Don't be violent, just show them that it's something you won't stand for. During the encore, some guy shoved his way up and tried filming over my shoulder and had his flash on for video. I raised my drink cup up in front of his lens to block it. He flipped a biscuit. His flash light was directly in my eye as I was turned around to watch the large screen. Shining a flashlight into someone's eyes is not acceptable in any venue except a traffic stop. Stop tolerating the B.S. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how many around you feel the same way!

 

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I was right next to Sean (nice meeting you guys btw!) and although there were a few times the cell screens came up, all and all, I have to say it didn't appear as bad as some of the other shows.  It's still a problem though and it's only going to get worse.

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18 hours ago, bigwave said:

If you read back I never say anything about blocking anyone else view.. or condoning it. I always try to be aware of others around me, even if they may be too into the swing of things to notice anyone else around them... I even been known to mosh.. quite recently in fact at The Alarm. My back didn't like it next morning, but it was mint.

What I was trying to get across is that I, and others sometimes want to share the moment with others, scoping, photo whatever. It don't always work out, but the desire is from a good place, not with the intention of ruining it for anyone else. The opposite.

Ah, thanks for clarifying!  Sorry I apparently misread you.

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On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 7:34 AM, SeanGaffney said:

I took a small stand at tonight's show and pushed down as many phones as I could reach in front of my view. I paid good cash to attend this show and waited 30 years to get there - I wasn't going to have it ruined by watching someone else's bright screen recording crappy video in front of me. I asked the people to just watch the show. I got a lot of indignant looks and such, but the people around me started to drop the phones and get into the show. Stop tolerating it, say something and also DO SOMETHING! Don't be violent, just show them that it's something you won't stand for. During the encore, some guy shoved his way up and tried filming over my shoulder and had his flash on for video. I raised my drink cup up in front of his lens to block it. He flipped a biscuit. His flash light was directly in my eye as I was turned around to watch the large screen. Shining a flashlight into someone's eyes is not acceptable in any venue except a traffic stop. Stop tolerating the B.S. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how many around you feel the same way!

 

Thats what I plan to do if people are doing that BS at shows I go to. Make a stand folks!!

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Lucky enough to be at LA 2 a week ago....an amazing experience, and a great show in my opinion.......

But.....I have to agree with most of you on here......folks, take a couple of photos and then PLEEEAAASSSEEEEEE put your phones away and enjoy the amazing show with your own eyes.

I'm back in the UK now, on a bank holiday Sunday evening, and I've just started Elevation 2001 Boston on the cinema system !

Wow, forgot just how good this was ! 3 songs in, Until The End of The World, EVERYONE's hands in the air........and no "dangerous little devices" in sight ! The way it used to be. A proper U2 rock n roll show !

Looking forward to Twickenham and Dublin, hopefully with less phones held in the air.....

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On 5/28/2017 at 1:11 PM, mickoafc said:

Eddie Vedder is trying to put a stop to it on his upcoming tour...

https://pearljam.com/news/eddie-vedder-tour-security-etiquette-policies

Good on him!

I've never done anything like this in the past but I did a little digging, found some important names and addresses to the boys and sent letters (1) requesting that video recording of any kind not be allowed in GA and RZ and (2) inform them that some people here who work for the forum are advocating a practice that's against the bands requests.

I also discovered that U2 only lends its name to this site.  Live Nation owns and runs this site for them.  I'd be willing to bet that if the right people know that video recording is being promoted and advocated here, you'll see more clamping down on the practice at shows.

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10 hours ago, StinkyJay said:

I also discovered that U2 only lends its name to this site.  Live Nation owns and runs this site for them.  I'd be willing to bet that if the right people know that video recording is being promoted and advocated here, you'll see more clamping down on the practice at shows.

I think the problem is, U2 sold their touring business to Live Nation specifically because they didn't want to deal with the day to day anymore.  Before the sale (which happened before No Line/360), the band was incredibly hands on about things, from venue layouts to ticket prices to fan experience.  At a certain point, this stopped being a priority for them.  I don't know if it was a matter of exhaustion with dealing with the details themselves (that is, their management, obviously Bono was not going to each empty arena and deciding where the line should fall dividing expensive tickets from cheap tickets), or if Live Nation made an offer that was simply too lucrative to turn down, but the end result is, U2 now says they want to go on tour and Live Nation does the rest.  The band's GA floor has stayed and the GA tickets are still priced lower than the top ticket price, so that must be a request within the band's deal.  But the band isn't handling ticketing or merchandise directly anymore, and it shows.

When U2 ran the show themselves:
-Every ticket on the PopMart tour in 1997 was $50, including floor tickets
-The Elevation tour in 2001 introduced dynamic pricing and tickets ranged from $50-130, floor tickets priced at lowest level
-Vertigo tour in 2005-2006 had slight increases at the top end, with prices shifting to $50-150, floor tickets priced at lowest level
-Low prices kept despite intentional lack of corporate sponsorship

Then Live Nation comes in and look how everything changes
-Corporate sponsorship immediately taken on for their first tour under the deal (Blackberry Presents U2 360)
-360 tour prices skyrocket despite being played in larger venues which allow for more revenue - prices are $30-250+, floor tickets no longer at lowest level
-I&E tour prices continue to skyrocket, prices are $50-300+, floor tickets no longer at lowest level
-JT17 tour prices continue gains, despite only two years passing and playing in larger venues, prices are $50-350+, floor tickets no longer at lowest level
-Band scalps their own tickets through "platinum" programs which remove seats from general seating pool and inflate prices without real perks, thus making it harder for fans to get tickets
-Credit card entry is introduced but not properly implemented, creating two sets of rules: fans who bought tickets they can't use are stuck with them, but unscrupulous scalpers can resell their tickets - band's management refuses to require venues to check ID (which the system requires to work)

The pricing thing is huge... ten years ago, the floor tickets were the cheapest ticket at a U2 show, and the top price was $150.  In ten years, floor tickets are no longer the cheapest ticket, and the top price is at least $350 - there are so many different ticket categories that it's hard to say for sure.  But $350 is more than twice $150, and I know that the cost of goods and inflation has not more than doubled in ten years.  This isn't about keeping pace with the economy, this is a naked crash grab.  And I can kinda, sorta understand higher prices for smaller venues because they do an expensive production and with less tickets to sell, it's harder to make all of that back... but when they're playing stadiums that hold 50,000 - 100,000 people a night, it's hard to argue that there's a revenue need.  And of course they can charge what they want to.  But it didn't used to be about extracting every possible dollar from a fan's wallet.  Sure, they wanted to get paid and were paid well, but it was also about the music and respecting the fans and having a relationship with the audience and believing that music transcended money and that they were after something more than just a payday.

I think they still care about music and haven't set out to rip off fans, but maybe when you're the most successful band in the world, that comes with an obligation to treat fans right, and that's something Live Nation doesn't do, ever, for any act or any fans.  In my view, U2 should not have given up the control over their business that they did when they signed up with Live Nation.  U2 don't care enough about people ruining shows to do anything to stop it.  They gave up caring about the details before 360.

Edited by vertigojds

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