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vertigojds

Why are venue rules for GA lines not being enforced?

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For almost every show this tour (if not all), the venue hosting the show has posted rules for the show, and made them publicly available on their website, through social media, etc.  These always include some kind of restriction against lining up more than a certain amount of time before the show.

It appears that a small group of select fans are violating these rules, thus taking advantage of the clearly established policies.

For instance, the Tampa stadium said very clearly on their website and on Twitter than fans may not line up before 8am on the morning of the show, June 14th.  However, Twitter postings shared on this forum indicate that people started lining up the afternoon of June 12th, in clear violation of the established rules.

Why is this being tolerated?

It might not seem like a big deal to some, but I think it's actually a very big deal.  The system is only fair if everyone plays by the same set of rules.  If I had been going to the Tampa show, I would have seen the post from the venue, and thought, "OK, the venue is not allowing people to show up before a certain time, so if I show up at the earliest time allowed, I should be at or near the front of the line."  Then, I would have gotten to the venue and discovered that there were dozens or hundreds of people who were in front of me, who flagrantly violated the posted rules, and rather than being disciplined for it, are being rewarded.

When official outlets like the band or the venue broadcast instructions, those need to hold true for everyone.  If some rules apply to some people, but not to others, it creates a massively unfair system that rewards bad actors while penalizing those who try to do the right thing.

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The venues don't want lines forming on their property. But there's nothing stopping people from lining up early, off the venue's property. Should the venue recognize these unofficial lines? There's two sides to that coin.

Yes, the unofficial line rewards a few fans, who are prepared to travel, & invest quite a bit of time (though, for most most of them, most of that time is not spent camped outside the venue). This system rewards those that can make it to the venue one or two days in advance, & have the time to check in a couple of times a day. But really, these people are not required to spend much time in line, until show day. Those running the line, if they are dishonest, can also add friends near the top of the list (although I've met some very nice, honest people running the lines). The same people get the best spots for many, many shows. Those who have found that little bit of time to check in over a day or two will be much further up the line than other people who have just arrived very early on the day of the show. Even though both groups will be spending the equal amounts of time in line on show day. So no, it doesn't seem exactly fair does it. The unofficial line has served me well in the past, as I'm prepared to get to venues early, & usually have time for check ins (I'm usually travelling). But I'm not sure it's the best way.

The problem is, what's the alternative? I don't think the venue can just say arrive at 8am. Is 7:55am ok, or does it have to be right at 8am? How many people will be waiting at 8am to start the line. If it's something like the Rosebowl it could be 100's & 100's. How do you organize these people, who have all arrived right at 8am? Who gets to be #1? Some venues send people away, & don't want to see them until 2pm. Could be over a 1,000 people by then. How do all these people to be organized? Can't just get them to organize themselves, there would be chaos!

I think the best solution would be to have a lottery, ala Bruce Springsteen. Run by U2's crew, to keep it fair. That way there's be no advantage gained from excessive queuing, & we'd have different people in the prime spots every night.

The only problem, if the lottery was performed late in the day & involved many, many 100's of people, if the lottery number fell badly for you, you could be way, way back. Being short, this would suck for me. So I think there should be some benefit in arriving early, & spending your time in line. So I'd propose an early morning lottery, 7-8am, for the couple of hundred people there. Everyone who arrives early would still get a good spot, but the best spots will go to different people for each show. Anyone arriving after the lottery just joins the back of the line. If the venue doesn't want queuing until 2pm, wristband people, numbered, & different colours for those in the lottery & those who arrived after. Some work, but a fairer system.

Edited by ddarroch

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I've been to quite a few Springsteen shows and I'd absolutely be in favor of adopting that policy. 

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7 hours ago, vertigojds said:

I've been to quite a few Springsteen shows and I'd absolutely be in favor of adopting that policy. 

Same. Everyone knows the risks. Everyone knows the rewards. It's fair and above board.

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Honestly I don't think there's one good way to do it. Security just doesn't want people congregating on premises, that's their primary concern. I've seen them claim they're not going to allow any early lining up and then at X time in the morning they wristband the line first because it's organized. Fans who run the line work with security, try to help out security, and have been thanked by security for being organized. Both the lottery system and current system are good in theory. The line prevents people rushing the venue at the time security says people can line up. Say someone shows up right at 6 AM wristbanding and a couple people who got there after them manage to get in front of them. Do you think they're going to be okay with that? Multiply that by potentially hundreds of people all claiming they were there first or there before someone else and you've got people yelling and pushing. The line provides proof of time and order and has things organized early so that by the time security does wristbanding, everyone's already lined up in order. I've seen this happen.

With the lottery system, yes it will potentially prevent early, or extremely early queuing. It will help make things more fair for people who can't take 2+ days off work. But it's also going to negatively impact many people. The lottery system works until you're behind twenty people who won't stop putting their cameras/phones/signs in the air and you spent $100+ on a ticket just to look at the back of a piece of paper or see the band through someone's phone and all of a sudden lottery isn't working for you. And for a lot of people they're attending their first show, their first time doing GA or can only afford to go see one show, and really want to have an amazing experience including being up front but the lottery system could rip that away from them. Or people with children who really want to be at rail so they don't have to worry about people pushing their kids, their kids getting tired or so their kids can see.

There are pros and cons to both systems, there is fairness and unfairness to both systems. I personally think the best system is having someone from security, band or venue, starting the line and dictating when and where to be. Some think things are good the way they are, and some think the lottery system is the best way to go. 

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12 hours ago, ddarroch said:

The only problem, if the lottery was performed late in the day & involved many, many 100's of people, if the lottery number fell badly for you, you could be way, way back. Being short, this would suck for me. So I think there should be some benefit in arriving early, & spending your time in line. So I'd propose an early morning lottery, 7-8am, for the couple of hundred people there. Everyone who arrives early would still get a good spot, but the best spots will go to different people for each show. Anyone arriving after the lottery just joins the back of the line. If the venue doesn't want queuing until 2pm, wristband people, numbered, & different colours for those in the lottery & those who arrived after. Some work, but a fairer system.

I really like this idea.  From what I understand, there are usually only a few hundred people there early in the morning for most shows.  Allow lineup to begin at 7:00.  Do the lottery at 8:00 and give out 400 numbered wristbands to those people.  Everyone arriving after that gets a numbered wristband as they arrive, starting with #401 and is told to come back at 2:00 PM.  Maybe for arena shows you do the lottery for the first 200 people.   I don't really see a downside to this procedure.

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Ultimately, I just don't think it's right that there's a scenario where the following happens:

-Venue says no one can show up before 8am
-I show up just before 8am
-I'm only one of a handful of people there, but I'm told that there are actually hundreds of people in front of me, even though they're not there
-I wait in line all day
-People keep showing up and saying they had stopped by earlier, so actually they're in front of me
-Even though I showed up at the time specified by the venue and was only one of a handful of people there and didn't leave after arriving, I'm actually #500 to enter.

That's not right. 

Taking names and numbering people makes sense.  Allowing them frequent and lengthy absences from the premises does not.  I'm totally cool with getting to know your neighbors, and having them hold your spot so you can use the bathroom, smoke a cigarette, or pick up some food to bring back to the line.

I'm not OK with the idea that someone can "check in" two days ahead of time and then magically be first in line without having waited two days.  Even if they have to "check in" once a day, that's still not right.  Waiting in line means... waiting in line.  The check-in system, in my experience, favors fans who travel from city to city, while putting local fans at a disadvantage.  For instance, take the upcoming MetLife shows in NJ.  The stadium is in an industrial area off a highway that's not readily accessible via public transportation except on days of events.  Parking lots are closed until the day of the event.  However, there is a hotel on the property.  So this means that those traveling fans can book a hotel room there, walk to the front of the stadium gates, declare themselves "first" and then go back to their room and have a good night's sleep.  People that live in the area can't just do the same - as a local NYC resident, there's no way for me to get to the stadium when there isn't something happening there.  If I rented a car and tried to park it there days ahead of time, I'd likely be arrested for trespassing and get my vehicle towed.  But I'm sure it's relatively easy for someone staying at the hotel on the property to sneak over and declare that they're first.  How is that right?

In the end, with this current fan run system, the people at the front of the line aren't the people willing to wait the longest.  They're the people with the deepest pockets who can afford to take time off from work and travel from city to city, and who can do things like staying in hotels on venue property to skirt the rules and gain access to areas that local residents have no chance at getting to.  This is exactly the reason that U2 switched from a fan-regulated line in 2001 to randomized "inner circle" admission in 2005.

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6 hours ago, vertigojds said:

-Venue says no one can show up before 8am
-I show up just before 8am
-I'm only one of a handful of people there, but I'm told that there are actually hundreds of people in front of me, even though they're not there
-I wait in line all day
-People keep showing up and saying they had stopped by earlier, so actually they're in front of me
-Even though I showed up at the time specified by the venue and was only one of a handful of people there and didn't leave after arriving, I'm actually #500 to enter.

That's not right.

The part that bothers me about this scenario is that if you don't happen to know who's running the "official unofficial line" then how are you supposed to know otherwise?

Exactly as you are saying, if the instructions from the venue are, show up at 8am day of, and you have no idea that a check-in system even exists, why on Earth would you be expected to give up your spot to people that aren't on premises?

Interesting aside when it comes to queuing: I stopped by a Target the day that the new Nintendo released to see if maybe they had one available for my son. I honestly didn't expect to get one but it was on my way to work and it was right at opening, so I pulled in. I saw a line of probably 50 people and turned around because I thought, "nope, too late!" No big deal, didn't think it was going to happen anyway.

Manager sees me and asks if I'm there for the Nintendo, and I say yeah, but I don't want to wait in line only for them to sell out, I'll try my luck another time. He hands me a ticket with the #50 on it and says, you got the last one. Sweet. I wait with my number.

The line starts moving and I'm getting closer to pay for it, when a guy approaches me with a frantic look on his face. He tells me that he had gotten there 6 hours before opening but had forgotten his wallet and had to leave to go and get it. His story was corroborated by a few other people in line and even the store manager. He then asked me if I would kindly give up my number so he could have the item that he had waited 6 hours for. I looked him square in the eyes and said, "I'm very sorry, that sounds like terrible luck, but I'm here now. Why would it be fair for me to leave empty-handed?" The guy wasn't rude and he left it at that and I purchased the Nintendo for my son (who loves it btw!).

The point of all that is, I was there, I was in line, I followed the rules. Why would it have been fair for that guy to buy a unit, when I hadn't done anything wrong? Why would it have been fair for him to self-appoint himself as the line police on some obscure blog/Twitter/Facebook? Venues need to hand out wristbands first come, first serve and then send people home. Even better, let us log in to TM or the venue site and register for a GA# from home, print it at home and bring it to the show for your line #. Don't have one when you show up at the venue, you're assigned a # based on the already registered #'s. It's advertised and official. Done.

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13 hours ago, Synj said:

Exactly as you are saying, if the instructions from the venue are, show up at 8am day of, and you have no idea that a check-in system even exists, why on Earth would you be expected to give up your spot to people that aren't on premises?

Exactly.

I was worried I was coming off like a crazy person, and I can't tell you what a relief it is to know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

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U2gigs.com just posted a twitter picture of someone in line at Philadelphia and a sign for fan "rules".  All you have to do is show up for 1 minute this morning and 1 minute this night, and then you can show up tomorrow and be ahead of everyone else.  I don't see how that's right.  Someone willing to show up at 5am tomorrow morning and wait all day should not be told that hundreds of people who aren't there waiting are magically ahead of them.

I really wish someone would put a stop to this nonsense.

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25 minutes ago, vertigojds said:

U2gigs.com just posted a twitter picture of someone in line at Philadelphia and a sign for fan "rules".  All you have to do is show up for 1 minute this morning and 1 minute this night, and then you can show up tomorrow and be ahead of everyone else.  I don't see how that's right.  Someone willing to show up at 5am tomorrow morning and wait all day should not be told that hundreds of people who aren't there waiting are magically ahead of them.

I really wish someone would put a stop to this nonsense.

its far from nonsense. This is an organic thing that has developed over many years, many tours. Lots of trust involved and lots of working with venues, security etc. 

Its not compulsory, and its not random, its a great thing in my opinion but its not official, and I get your point on that. Hopefully we might get some folks who have helped out organising the GA lines over the years, but maybe not as they may not want to get lambasted or criticised overly for basically trying to help other fans out. 

Its a valid discussion, but my own view is this : If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

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22 minutes ago, bigwave said:

its far from nonsense. This is an organic thing that has developed over many years, many tours. Lots of trust involved and lots of working with venues, security etc. 

Its not compulsory, and its not random, its a great thing in my opinion but its not official, and I get your point on that. Hopefully we might get some folks who have helped out organising the GA lines over the years, but maybe not as they may not want to get lambasted or criticised overly for basically trying to help other fans out. 

Its a valid discussion, but my own view is this : If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

It is broke.

I have been involved in GA lines that were fairly run and that were a benefit to all that were there.  This isn't that. 

When someone can show up at the venue 2 days before the show, say "I'm first" and then go home for two days, show up a couple hours before the show, and cut in front of hundreds or thousands of people who have been patiently waiting and never left, something is very wrong.

I saw all eight of the U2 shows at Madison Square Garden on the I&E tour.  Each time, I showed up, I got in line and waited all day, and then right before the doors open, had tons of people cutting in front of me who weren't there all day.  And each time, the excuse was the same.  They stopped by last night and put their name on a list.  There were many times when there was no one there with a list, or when the person holding the list would say no names could be added to it.  In other words, "My friends are in front and don't have to wait, but you do."

That makes no sense.

Lists are great to keep the line orderly.  Lists are great so there's no dispute over who showed up in which order.  Lists are great when a line needs to move from one physical location to another.  Lists are great when it comes to letting someone step away for a moment to use the bathroom or grab a sandwich or have a cigarette. 

Lists are not great when it becomes a way for people to cut in front of other people.

If you're not willing to wait outside of the venue overnight for the show, you shouldn't get to cut in front of people who are.  If you're not willing to stand in line all day, you shouldn't get to cut in front of people who did. 

I'm going to the show tomorrow.  I don't live in Philadelphia so I will be traveling from out of town.  I will arrive in the morning, get in line, and stay in line all day.  And then, at some point before the doors open, someone is going to cut in front of me and say they were first because they stopped by for one minute two days ago.  That's not fairness.  That's a select few people rigging the system.

In my experience, this trust has broken down over the years.  A select few people manipulate the system so they can always be at the front with the least amount of waiting.  In my experience, some of these people are generally rude to other fans and unpleasant to be around.  U2 acknowledged that this was a problem in 2005 by randomizing the entry into the area closest to the stage, so that these people could no longer take advantage.  I sincerely wish that U2 would return to a similar system, because it's once again a problem.

As I've said multiple times, I am 100% in favor of giving out numbers and making lists for the sake of keeping the line orderly.  I'm in favor of allowing people to step out of line to use the bathroom, or to grab a quick snack, or stretch their legs.  But it's a general admission LINE, and the current system has a select few evading the whole idea of actually waiting in line.

Someone who is not willing to wait there all day should not get to stand ahead of someone who is and who did.

Edited by vertigojds

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Bigwave, I get that this started from a good place.  I get that many people aren't trying to cheat other fans out of a good experience.  But I believe that despite the best intentions of some, this has gotten way out of hand.

Most of these stadium shows hold about 10,000 people on the floor - so that's 10,000 general admission tickets per show.  It's not right that there's one secret set of rules that applies to about 100 of those people, and a second publicized set of rules that applies to the other 9,900 people.

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For what it's worth, one of my very best experiences at any concert ever were the two U2 shows in Providence on October 30th and 31st in 2001.  There was a line and a list, but people actually waited in line.  There was a real sense of community on those two days, and if we had turned the place into "Camp U2."  The list wasn't run by one specific person; people took turns all day and night so that it didn't fall on one person's shoulders.  With the list, people were free to step away for a little bit, but no one abused the privilege.  If someone was running to get coffee, for instance, they might ask their neighbors if they wanted any, and instead of bringing back a single cup, brought a whole large container to share instead.  A group of us when to the mall food court next door and brought back burgers for other people who were sticking around.  I might not have spent 100% of my day standing in perfect chronological alignment, but everyone was on the venue property and generally in the same area.  A couple hours before the doors opened, the line ended up taking a more orderly shape.

This was very different from U2 in New York City in 2015.  There was no sense of community in the line; there wasn't even really a line.  There were the suckers like myself who got stuck waiting all day because, silly us, we followed the directions that the venue and band and ticketmaster sent out, and then the magical list people who didn't and who just showed up at 5pm each night and said they were in front.  The people running the list would tell fans arriving the day of that they had to stay put all day; meanwhile, since the list runners were on the "list" they could come and go as they pleased.  I had to stand in the sun all day without being allowed to leave (not that I'm complaining; that's what I thought I was signing up for); meanwhile, other people hung out in their air conditioned hotel rooms or at restaurants or at the movies until just before the doors opened.  Two sets of rules.

If everyone was as nice and friendly as they were in Providence more than fifteen years ago, I'd be happy to do that again.  But it seems like it's more of the 2015 experience, and that's something that's really not fair to the vast majority of fans.

Edited by vertigojds

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Haven't been to a concert on this tour yet,  but from what I can see online when following it is that the check-in on show day has been early like 6 /7 am and you MUST turn up and stay all day. 

This means no-one is actually rocking up later and pushing in ahead of those who turn up later as they should already be there.

Unfortunately it doesn't help those that work etc  who are unable to checkin in 2 days earlier for a short time.

The GA line for Philly was started whilst the latest concert was still going. I don't like that. If you had plans to fly to Philly and turn up at GA early in the hope of getting a place on the rail then it is impossible as the line was started 2 days earlier! 

Not sure what the solution is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/17/2017 at 9:00 AM, vertigojds said:

Ultimately, I just don't think it's right that there's a scenario where the following happens:

-Venue says no one can show up before 8am
-I show up just before 8am
-I'm only one of a handful of people there, but I'm told that there are actually hundreds of people in front of me, even though they're not there
-I wait in line all day
-People keep showing up and saying they had stopped by earlier, so actually they're in front of me
-Even though I showed up at the time specified by the venue and was only one of a handful of people there and didn't leave after arriving, I'm actually #500 to enter.

That's not right. 

Taking names and numbering people makes sense.  Allowing them frequent and lengthy absences from the premises does not.  I'm totally cool with getting to know your neighbors, and having them hold your spot so you can use the bathroom, smoke a cigarette, or pick up some food to bring back to the line.

But that won't happen. If it's officially an 8am arrival time on premises, these guys will have a very early check-in, at 6-7am. Then right at 8am this line will be moved on to the premises (sometimes even with a police escort). They'll all be there at 8am, they won't be arriving later, in dribs and drabs, & pushing in front of you. They may come & go at a later time. If they're gone for long periods, that's just plain rude. But nothing to do with the list, it will happen with any line if people are rude & inconsiderate! 

You've arrived at 8am. Have these people on the list put in more time than you. Yes, though not that much. They've had an early morning check-in before 8am, & check-ins I'm previous days.

The problems I see with the line are, if people don't know it's there. There's got to be plenty of posts on social media to inform people when & where check-ins will be. Plus if dishonest people are running the line, & putting friends at the top of the list. Luckily I've also met some very nice, honest people running the line, & putting a fair bit of effort communicating with security, to keep the queuing process fair & safe. 

As I've said previously, the line (or a lottery) is a necessary evil. You can't expect 100's of people, who arrive at 8am, to organize themselves into a line. There will be chaos! 

Edited by ddarroch

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22 minutes ago, bestia said:

The GA line for Philly was started whilst the latest concert was still going. I don't like that. If you had plans to fly to Philly and turn up at GA early in the hope of getting a place on the rail then it is impossible as the line was started 2 days earlier! 

Not sure what the solution is.

The only good thing here is at least there will be someone different at the start of the line for Philly, claiming the prime spots. 

Also happens in multiple nights. People are inside enjoying night 1. Other people are outside, lining up for night 2. At least we'll get different people in the prime spots for night 2.

Edited by ddarroch

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7 minutes ago, bestia said:

Haven't been to a concert on this tour yet,  but from what I can see online when following it is that the check-in on show day has been early like 6 /7 am and you MUST turn up and stay all day. 

I truly hope it works out that way.  For the 2015 tour shows that I saw, even though that's what the unofficial rule was, in practice, the list people came and went and didn't hang around all day.  There was basically no one there all morning or all afternoon, and then at 5 o'clock they'd all show up.  If people are required to stay there the day of the show, that at least brings some element of fairness to it, but I still think the unofficial line beginning is problematic.

 

9 minutes ago, bestia said:

Unfortunately it doesn't help those that work etc  who are unable to checkin in 2 days earlier for a short time.

The GA line for Philly was started whilst the latest concert was still going. I don't like that. If you had plans to fly to Philly and turn up at GA early in the hope of getting a place on the rail then it is impossible as the line was started 2 days earlier! 

Exactly.  All of my plans for my trip to Philly were set on information officially released by the venue and ticketmaster.  It's not right that I've made my plans and am following their directions exactly as they've specified and will be penalized for doing so.

 

5 minutes ago, ddarroch said:

As I've said previously, the line (or a lottery) is a necessary evil. You can't expect 100's of people, who arrive at 8am, to organize themselves into a line. There will be chaos! 

I would absolutely be in favor of a lottery, similar to the system that Bruce Springsteen uses.  On Springsteen's last tour, everyone arriving before 4pm had an equal chance to be selected as the first person in line.  There was absolutely no reason to camp out because it made no difference to your chances of being in first.  Everyone arriving after 4pm would be placed into secondary line that was "first come, first serve."  Once the lottery was run and all people from that line were let in, then people in the second line were let in.  One night I was close to the winner number, other nights I wasn't, but for all shows, both the line process and entry process were orderly, and I got amazingly good spots, even on the nights that I "lost".  Everyone who could get there before 4pm had an equal chance of being first in line, and even people who didn't win still got great spots.  People arriving at 4pm still got good spaces.  This is a much fairer system - it doesn't give an advantage to a select minority of wealthy fans who can afford to take days off from work, or stay at the hotels on the property of venues otherwise closed to the public so they can say they were there "first", etc. 

At least, with the stage being so high on this particular tour, being in the very front row center isn't really as valuable as it was for shows past.  It looks like if you're in the very front, you can't really see much comfortable, and you're certainly not in a position to be making direct eye contact with the band members.  So that does take some of the sting out of these unfair systems - they're doing all of this manipulation of the system to get spots that aren't really that great.

19 minutes ago, bestia said:

Not sure what the solution is.

I know this won't be popular and isn't likely to be enforced, but I think when the venue officially opens for business, at 9am or whatever the posted time was, all of the people who showed up in advance, breaking the clearly written rules and instructions, should be placed in the back of the line.  Let the people who arrive at the allowed time in line first, and only after each and every person who showed up at 8 and waited at the established spot have been counted should the people who did the cheat line be allowed to join.  That would send a clear message that people who violate the rules wouldn't be rewarded for doing so.

If U2 want to adopt the check-in system as the official way of doing things, then fine, I will live with that.  Some venues do that, regardless of the overall band policy.  For instance, the TD Banknorth Garden in Boston will usually hand out numbered wristbands the day before and day of the event for general admission, and tell people to come back at 5pm.  But it's not a secret; it's publicized on their website, so everyone with a ticket to the show has that information and can decide what they want to do.  What I really object to is that the band and venue - through their official websites, official social media channels, and other official communications, sets one set of rules and communicates those to the 60,000 people who bought tickets.  Then, acting on their own, a small handful of people decide to make a new set of rules, which go unnoticed and unpublicized, and which are contradicted by the official rules given out to everyone, and then everyone is made to follow these unofficial rules that they didn't know about and had no way of knowing about.  There cannot be two sets of rules.  I paid my money and bought my ticket the same as everyone else - the rules should apply just as equally to me as it does to them.

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24 minutes ago, ddarroch said:

But that won't happen. If it's officially an 8am arrival time on premises, these guys will have a very early check-in, at 6-7am. Then right at 8am this line will be moved on to the premises (sometimes even with a police escort. They'll all be there at 8am

But still.. if i show up at 5am and wait from 5am until the doors open at 5pm, I don't see how it's right that someone who showed up for 1 minute two days before, and then came back at 7am, gets to be in front of me.  They were not waiting in line.  At some point, shouldn't people who are waiting in a line have to, you know, wait in the line?

As I've said, I'm all in favor of people temporarily leaving the line to use the restroom, to get food, to stretch their legs, catch a break, make a phone call, grab a smoke, whatever.  But when you're putting your name on a list and then coming back two days later, you really haven't been waiting in line for two days, and don't deserve to be ahead of people who actually did wait.  There's absolutely no official policy at any venue on this tour allowing it; the official policies are the opposite.  So again, we're back to my main objection - all concertgoers are given one set of concrete rules, and then a few select people make up a new set of rules that allows them to be in front as if they had waited for days without actually waiting, but since these new rules aren't publicized, the vast majority of attendees do not get a chance to make their plans according to them. 

There cannot be two sets of rules for people holding the same type of ticket.

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18 hours ago, vertigojds said:

I saw all eight of the U2 shows at Madison Square Garden on the I&E tour.  Each time, I showed up, I got in line and waited all day, and then right before the doors open, had tons of people cutting in front of me who weren't there all day.  And each time, the excuse was the same.  They stopped by last night and put their name on a list.  There were many times when there was no one there with a list, or when the person holding the list would say no names could be added to it.  In other words, "My friends are in front and don't have to wait, but you do."

 

I was at 2 of the Madison Square Garden shows and I don't recall it happening like that at all. We did get numbers the day before, we did have to do the check ins at 11pm the night before and everyone had to show back up at 5:30am or they got marked off the list.  At that point, people were supposed to stay.  There was coming and going because people trusted people to go get food and/or showers.  Where I was, people were very mindful to ask if it was ok if they left for a bit. Then at 2, everyone had to stay for the duration, with the exception of a quick bathroom break in Penn State. Numbers were checked, etc. I would say that there is no fault to the person who starts the line.  I recommend that next time you do GA, get to know the people around you and I'm sure if you asked if you could go for a bit for a rest or get out of the weather, they would be totally cool with it.  That is what I have experienced every time I've done GA.

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I think @vertigojds and I are cut from the same cloth because I agree with him entirely.

This system benefits the 1% of the people at the top over and over, so of course they see no reason why it should be changed.

17 hours ago, ddarroch said:

The problems I see with the line are, if people don't know it's there. There's got to be plenty of posts on social media to inform people when & where check-ins will be.

This is my biggest problem with the whole thing. If I buy a Ticket from TM, and I follow the rules posted by the band, the venue and the promoter, how am I supposed to know there's another blog/Facebook/Twitter that has a set of unofficial line rules that I'm expected to follow? More importantly, even if I know about the unofficial line rules, why am I obligated to follow them? As vertigo said, why are there two sets of rules?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a civil person and I understand the 'why' behind these lines and I think they started under the guise of good intentions. But when it's the same people over and over that have the very best spots every single time, you have to ask yourself how that happens.

The idea of camping out or standing all day in a line all day sounds awful. I still think that one official line hosted by the official band website or TM is the only fair way of doing it. Login at 8am day of show and register for your GA#, print it out, then show up an hour before doors open to line up. Anyone that didn't register is given their number when they arrive, or if doors are open they just walk in per usual. This is basically how airlines like Southwest do it, you check in 24 hours before your flight and are assigned your spot in line, first come first serve.

In fairness, they've monetized this and they use it with rewards too. The band could easily have a Red Hills line registration at 6am, Wires at 7am, and general public at 8am.
The same hardcore fans would probably benefit the most from this system, but at least it's all public and above board and if you're quick to register, there's still a chance you could get #1.

Here's a question for someone in the know: who gets #1 now and why do they get to declare themselves as #1? Honest question.

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Just had a read of the Fedex Field GA line rules. Interesting.

Keen to see if those rules are followed and how it works.

Edited by bestia

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1 hour ago, bestia said:

Just had a read of the Fedex Field GA line rules. Interesting.

Keen to see if those rules are followed and how it works.

Link please?

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And the problem arises when things like these get posted and numbered lines start early anyway! 

 

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3 hours ago, bestia said:

And the problem arises when things like these get posted and numbered lines start early anyway! 

 

I think that's a great system.

If anyone tried to tell me that they were in front of me on day of show, there would be words.

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