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Sherry

FINE PRINT of Verified Fan Presale

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Hi Sherry! I stood right next to you in the Red Zone in San Diego! I was wearing the beautiful day shirt ?. I was one of the unlucky fans that got the shaft in this pre sale. I received the email to expect the pre sale code and then I received the “oops just kidding” email. I’m aghast at this pre sale. It’s a joke.  Thank you for your post and trying to make sense of this disaster. I hope the band can make it up to the paying fan club members who really lost out. 

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11 hours ago, dugadams said:

At U2 = sad. 

In spite of the staff shirts 

they think they are special. 

They are proving otherwise this week 

Now you are just trolling. 

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2 minutes ago, bjornlodd said:

Now you are just trolling. 

Just because I am trolling does not mean I am wrong ;)

 

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Just now, dugadams said:

Just because I am trolling does not mean I am wrong ;)

 

Calling fellow fans sad and that they think they are special is wrong.  I'm done discussing though; enjoy the rest of your day.

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On 11/15/2017 at 12:22 PM, kuroshii said:

I'm going to need that code to buy tickets regardless of when I try to purchase--yes, even under General Sale.

I would be careful trying to use your fan club code for seats in the general sale - when you go to the TM website now it only shows Citi presale seats to unlock.  I still have one ticket left that I can buy with my innocence code and it's not working right now, I'm guessing because they took down the U2.com Verified Fan seats from the options.  You should definitely register for the General Sale if you plan on buying tickets on Monday, just to be sure!  And even then who knows if they're throwing all available seats into one pool in the general.  You may be left with the scraps from the fan presale if you use that code.  I wouldn't risk it!

Screen Shot 2017-11-17 at 11.39.47 AM.png

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On 11/15/2017 at 12:22 PM, kuroshii said:

As someone on another thread said, now that I'm a Verified Fan I'm going to need that code to buy tickets regardless of when I try to purchase--yes, even under General Sale.

I just looked and saw that the fan presale for both groups (innocence and experience) officially ended 11/16 at 5pm.  They are over.  So if you plan on using a  fan presale code in the general, there's no indication that will work.  I just asked about this in the help center.  I'll let you known what I find out.   But if you want to buy in the general, it's looking like you need to be VERIFIED AGAIN for the general.  

Screen Shot 2017-11-17 at 11.47.57 AM.png

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2 hours ago, DeirdreBell said:

I just looked and saw that the fan presale for both groups (innocence and experience) officially ended 11/16 at 5pm.  They are over.  So if you plan on using a  fan presale code in the general, there's no indication that will work.  I just asked about this in the help center.  I'll let you known what I find out.   But if you want to buy in the general, it's looking like you need to be VERIFIED AGAIN for the general. 

Thank you for that clarification! It's not pleasant info but it's info we need.

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Just now, kuroshii said:

Thank you for that clarification! It's not pleasant info but it's info we need.

I found out that you absolutely cannot use your fan codes in the general sale.  You have to register to get a code for the general sale.  The link to do so is on the home page here.  You have until tomorrow night.  

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On 11/15/2017 at 6:18 PM, peggy said:

It sounds like we all need to UNVERIFY ourselves with Ticketmaster. That way we at least have a shot getting tickets with the general public?

 

 Who even knows , they still have all our info & history of what we do ..........   here's an interesting twist  , Taylor swift signed on to the Verified fan thing & with hers they want to know before they verify you , how many tix do you want , where would you like to sit ?  How much are you willing to spend & will you pay for VIP  ........ before they will let you try & get in for the verified fan sales ............    I really hope someone sues them & takes them down .

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On 11/15/2017 at 11:01 PM, gotsoul1 said:

YES! It is EASY to do. This band has the power to do much more than they are. They can cancel the seats on those sites - - the seats for sale are spelled out/listed - - exactly what seat! You KNOW what to cancel! And the GAs that are available for immediate download upon purchase? CANCEL THEM. Ed Sheeran did it for 50,000 tickets! He had them cancelled when they showed up on re-sell sites. FIFTY THOUSAND. CANCELLED. Same thing with Eric Church. He had 25,000 tickets cancelled from scalpers!! THIS CAN BE DONE if you care enough to *really* 'keep the tickets out of the hands of scalpers and make sure they get to real fans.' Instead, many were just prey to a faulty algorithm or an unspoken lottery system, or both. But who knows because no one is telling us anything.

The bottom line: get a manager who really cares about the fans and DUMP LIVE NATION IN 2020.

 It's true , at a certain point the band has to step up & say ENOUGH , we are now in control & it stops here ............... I just don't know if even U2 has that power , they signed a 360 deal with live nation  & took money up front & then signed on with ticketmaster verified fan which is the SAME company , you sign with the Devil you have to pay ...........

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On 11/16/2017 at 6:45 PM, bjornlodd said:

Holding back GA = people forced to buy more expensive seats if they want to see the show.  The GA's are reasonably priced and will sell regardless.   The same is not necessarily true for a $390 ticket. I would like to believe that's not the intent of U2, but I would think Ticketmaster and LiveNation has this down to a science.

 

On 11/16/2017 at 7:41 PM, peggy said:

Ticketmaster convinced themselves that the U2 "loyal Followers", would be willing and happy to pay the big bucks. Boy, did they Ever miss judge us!!

 

 

 That's a pretty great Theory , get the REAL fans to buy up the Expensive stuff  as they'd be willing to pay $$$      ......... But you're right Peggy , when they were throwing great seats at me for $650  & average one's at $325 , no way was i buying them , i'll stay home this tour  If i can't get good reasonable tix ............. i'm a Fan not a fool .

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Yes. It appears Greed prevails. The reality is there are still lots of performers well worth seeing and they don't charge ridiculous anounts to see them. Unfortunately if a band like U2 increasingly cash grab,  whilst their bank balances improve other bands and performance artists may have a harder time selling tickets as music fans finances are squeezed. 

 

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Just to close out my experience with the pre-sales, as I could not reach u2.com by phone on the day after receiving the "here comes your code" followed by the "psych, no code for you" email, with absolutely no explanation whatsoever, I wrote U2.com via the help page, and their answer, just received, cut and pasted below, simply confirms that being a u2.com subscriber, for whatever number of years, merely places in you a lottery to get a code...and a code does not guarantee you can purchase a ticket.

So, this is what happens when a group is THIS popular, can sell out any venue they want several times over, ability to attend one of their concerts is simply not a guarantee any more, no matter how loyal and fanatical a fan you might be.  This degree of supply and demand also means that they can evidently test the market to see exactly how high they can raise ticket prices until people simply can no longer afford to go...obviously, there are still enough people willing to spend $325 and up for tickets that they can defer to Tickermaster, LiveNation, etc. to proceed in this manner.

This is capitalism at its best, folks.

For the record, here is the u2.com response to the email for help....sent four days ago:

 

Thanks for contacting U2.com. I am pleased to be assisting you.

We apologize for our late response, we have received an unusual amount of emails.

We are diligently working to answer each email in the order received.  

 

So sorry to hear you received an email stating you would receive a code, then received the second email retracting the first one.

 

Regretfully, the first email regarding the code was sent in error, then the second email was sent to correct the error made.

 

Registering as a Verified Fan does not guarantee you will receive a code.

 

The following was taken from the FAQs:

 

Does registering mean I get a code?

If randomly selected, you will receive a text 2-4 hours prior to the Presale or Onsale. Please note, tickets are available on a first-come, first-served basis and getting an access code does not guarantee tickets.

 

Our apologies for any frustration and inconvenience this has caused.

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Talking about fine print : 

I just noticed "Verified Subscriber presale is NOT chosen by lottery." now appears in my U2 account info

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On 11/15/2017 at 9:20 AM, Sherry said:

My theory...it's all in the fine print of "Verified Fan" and my sincere belief that if we were assigned a presale group that meant we were verified. 

In reading U2.com/help:
Can I register for other Verified Presales if I participate in the Verified Subscriber Presale, like Verified Citi and Verified Fan?
Yes, you may register for the other Presales in addition to the U2.com Verified Subscriber Presale. Please note, registration does not guarantee you will be verified, receive a code, or have the ability to purchase tickets through the other Presales.

Note: "Does not guarantee you will be verified."

In reading http://help.ticketmaster.com/verified-fan/
Am I guaranteed tickets if I get a #VerifiedFan code? If you have been randomly selected to receive a code it will unlock the ability to access tickets. However, tickets are available on a first-come, first-served basis and are not guaranteed.

Note: "If you have been randomly selected to receive a code...."

This is new to U2.com subscribers, and unless you actively researched this OCD-style (like I have), you wouldn't have connected the dots here that the Verified Fan system was a lottery. How is that lottery chosen? According to http://help.ticketmaster.com/verified-fan/:
Ticketmaster #VerifiedFan was designed to separate actual, human fans from bots and scalpers. The system aims to thwart bad actors who are in the business of taking away tickets from fans just so they can resell them. Our technology analyzes every registrant to make sure they are real people interested in going to the show.

Please note: Registering does NOT guarantee you will be verified, receive a code or have the ability to purchase tickets.

So, looking at this, it was an algorithm used by Ticketmaster that determined if "you've got the gifts to get me through the gates of that mansion." The algorithm apparently didn't take into account number of years of loyalty to U2.com, number of U2 concert tickets you've purchased through your TM account, if you've bought stuff through the U2.com fan shop, or the like. Not sure what the algorithm it was!

But good people, loyal to U2 for decades were shut out of the ticket buying for this tour. Is that how the band truly wants to reward it's loyal of loyals? Is this how the band wants their legacy to be remembered - by letting a computer algorithm determine the legitimacy of their fan base? This is absurd!

So, yeah - the fans who were shut out don't have a leg to stand on at the moment, and I can understand why the mods are having to dig out of a backlog longer than they've ever had to do before becuase it wasn't crystal clear to the fan club what it all meant - that we were entering a LOTTERY system through verification. That having an assigned presale group wasn't the confirmation...that setting up your account wasn't enough. That in some cases, being a member of the fanclub since its inception online wasn't enough. It's a tough pill to swallow and it's justified.

This is why people like myself kept asking questions - this is why @bigwave came on our ATU2 podcast to answer questions. This is why we questioned...everything....! And still, we're facing this situation which, quite frankly, is worse than 2005 because this time it wasn't the scalpers who kept the loyal fans out of the concert - it was Ticketmaster themselves with their algorithms. It's not a perfect system, but it shut out some very good, loyal people who have traveled the world to see this band - and who most likely will be forced to pay a scalper for their tickets. In this way, the statement of "U2 cares about their fans and they are committed to making every effort possible towards getting tickets into the hands of fans only." hurts more than ever to so many shut out of the process.

 

I assume someone has already replied to this BUT there is a difference between teh VERIFIED SUBSCRIBER presale (Which all of us u2.com members are part of) and the verified FAN presale (Which anyone can sign up for)

the latter was supposed to be the lottery that you may/may not get a code for (had to register for each show, etc, etc)

the former was not. 

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On 2017-11-15 at 10:49 AM, vertigojds said:

With respect... U2.com is a product managed by LiveNation.  Ticketmaster is owned by LiveNation.  These aren't separate entities.  So there's really no excuse for any of this, and I'm not really satisfied with the answer that so-and-so from this company didn't understand what so-and-so from that company meant.  LiveNation offered U2 a fortune to buy their fanclub and touring business, and U2 accepted.  This puts the responsibility jointly on both parties.

The quality of customer service went down significantly when LiveNation took over, and following Guy Oseary taking over for Paul McGuinness, the band and their management are no longer accessible or answerable to fans.

Well said!

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On 11/16/2017 at 5:42 PM, Sherry said:

What was explained to Bigwave to share on the podcast was not the case, so he was given bad information, imho. Some legit fan club members were accused of being a scalper when they called Ticketmaster / Live Nation about the fan club code issue. The U2.com Verified Subscriber presale language did not include the Ticketmaster Verified presale language - thus the confusion regarding the "random selection." This signals to me that whoever with U2.com responsible for that text was not aware of what Verified Fan really meant, nor mirrored that text. Ultimately, the Verified Fan rules are Ticketmaster's, so just because U2.com didn't list the fine print, the sale is still subject to the fine print of the one doing the sale - which is Ticketmaster. This is where some of the confusion and, ultimately disappointment is based. 

Thanks for the response Sherry.   But I've another point of confusion:  your comment seems to have to do with whether or not system's methods at accurately identifying scalpers and bots (as well as not mis-identifying non-scalpers AS scalpers) were effective.  It's one thing to say that the system hurt some fans by identifying non-scalpers AS scalpers.  But it's a distinct issue to claim that the system is inherently a lottery - *aside* from the effectiveness of the algorithm.   So, to be clear, let's hypothesize that the algorithm had worked *perfectly* during the presale.  Are you saying that in that case - EVEN THEN, the system would have denied a presale code to some non-scalper, U2.com subscribers?  In other words, it is just a numbers game - an actual lottery (as opposed to de facto lottery due to a faulty algorithm)?

If some folks didn't get codes b/c the algorithm wrongly tagged them, that's horrible, but it's not the same thing as a lottery.   My understanding of the variant language between TMVerified Fan and U2.com Subscriber Verified fan is that TM was a lottery (b/c they would likely be dealing with higher numbers, and could not give a code to everyone), whereas the U2.com Subscriber Presale was simply trying to weed out the scalpers who had bought U2.com subscriptions, and that they INTENDED to give a code to any subscriber NOT indentified that way.   Do I have this wrong?

Edited by zooclemson

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1 hour ago, zooclemson said:

If some folks didn't get codes b/c the algorithm wrongly tagged them, that's horrible, but it's not the same thing as a lottery.   My understanding of the variant language between TMVerified Fan and U2.com Subscriber Verified fan is that TM was a lottery (b/c they would likely be dealing with higher numbers, and could not give a code to everyone), whereas the U2.com Subscriber Presale was simply trying to weed out the scalpers who had bought U2.com subscriptions, and that they INTENDED to give a code to any subscriber NOT indentified that way.   Do I have this wrong?

I understand it wasn't really a lottery, but some folks were told it was by either U2.com or Ticketmaster. 

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On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 2:35 PM, LdeC said:

Talking about fine print : 

I just noticed "Verified Subscriber presale is NOT chosen by lottery." now appears in my U2 account info

Yes but above that I have (like anyone else I guess) the following which still keeps unclear if being a paid member with set up complete is enough to get a code for verified subscriber/u2.com member presale, a code we are supposed to receive because we paid the membership  

Screenshot_2017-11-21-23-58-12.png

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Yes, 

If your account says 'verified subscriber'  then the ticketmaster scalper check should have given you the all clear and you should be guaranteed a working presale code in a timely manner before any presale for your membership group is opened until you have used up your allocation (2 tickets) 

If 'verified subscriber' means something else we should know. 

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It says Completing your set up does not mean you have been verified nor does it guarantee participation at the presale 

So basically wedon't know if we are ok until the very last moment when/if we receive the mail 

And again when we paid for the subscription there was no mention of all this 

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30 minutes ago, monica martino said:

It says Completing your set up does not mean you have been verified nor does it guarantee participation at the presale 

So basically wedon't know if we are ok until the very last moment when/if we receive the mail 

And again when we paid for the subscription there was no mention of all this 

And much of this additional language on the FAQs has been added since the pre-sale debacle. I have a hard copy print out of the FAQs that I printed on Nov. 5th and it makes no mention of some of this stuff.

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On 11/20/2017 at 9:35 AM, LdeC said:

Talking about fine print : 

I just noticed "Verified Subscriber presale is NOT chosen by lottery." now appears in my U2 account info

I think this is the definitive answer on this now.   It is not chosen by lottery.  They could not have been any more explicit than that.  What this means is that any snafus that have happened are a result of the system/algorithm wrongly identifying some folks as scalpers.   In other words, being verified doesn't mean you're "verified as a non-scalper" - it simply means you've been verified as a subscribed U2.com member who's linked their account to Ticketmaster and is therefore eligible to be passed through the algorithm - in which case you WILL be given a code IF it doesn't identify you as a scalper.  Of coursei, if it DOES identify you as a scalper, then you won't get a code, which is why they include the language about how being verified doesn't guarantee anything.  

Then only way I can imagine getting around this is if they (a) were to confirm before the presale date whether you'd be identified as a scalper or not; and/or (b) if they released some general guidelines/parameters of what to do (or not to do) to avoid being misidentified as a scalper.   But of course, this might have the undesired effect of giving the scalpers enough information and mulligans to figure out by trial and error how to circumvent this new system.  

Just thinking out loud here, but one way the band could mitigate this problem to one degree or another is to quit trying to find the optimal equilibrium to keep demand at such a fever-pitch peak.  They used to play 110-130 shows on a tour, now they're playing probably 70-something, if we use the 2015 I+E as a guide.  Fewer shows only exacerbates this problem.   It's fair enough if they don't want to tour as much anymore.  I get that, but they do seem to spend a lot of time traveling around for other one-off shows, ceremonies and so forth - so maybe they could cut out all the overkill on the promotional one-offs and just play some more dates in more cities.  The demand would still be high, but the pressure on fans to be able to see a show would be more analogous to years past, rather than trying to scramble against bots and scalpers for one of 33 or so North American dates in small venues.  Just a thought.

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