Max Tsukino

Update: U2 Manager Guy Oseary Responds To Fans' Concerns Over E+I Tour Pre-sales

Recommended Posts

I can't specifically explain those, but in general... band management (for most bands, not just U2) will usually say that those are speculative listings, and that those sellers don't actually have those tickets. 

However, it's worth noting that it's against the rules at sites like StubHub to list tickets you don't have. Could all of these people just be breaking the rules? Possibly. 

The more upsetting possibility is that those tickets are being scalped by the band's management, promoters and corporate sponsors. I've seen a lot of tour contract riders leaked and posted for other bands where part of the contract includes delivering a quantity of high quality tickets for the band's own associates to scalp. 

Season ticket holders for sports teams at these venues also often have the opportunity to buy tickets directly from the venue before they go onsale to anyone else. 

So I fear it could be one or more of those things. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GUY OSEARY'S REPLY

Finally the letter raises the question of ticket allocation and the U2.com subscriber allocation being two tickets while the CITI presale offered four. Two is what we have always offered when the band are playing indoors in arenas with smaller capacities and what we wanted to do this time was ensure that subscribers were FIRST in line for presales which they have been. 

4 hours ago, mike7man said:

Unfortunately, the original fan letter didn't mention (or only briefly and to a minor degree) one key additional issue:  That the u2.com presale allotment (I'm not talking about the ticket limit)--that is, the actual number (and quality, if seats) of presale tickets was markedly smaller than in previous tours.  This went beyond the iNNOCENCE folks basically having no chance at GAs--many eXPERIENCE folks couldn't obtain GAs either.  And the presale seats in general were clearly inferior.

48 minutes ago, Matkin22 said:

There's a reason for that, and that is we couldn't make that assertion without having the actual data in front of us; something that only Ticketmaster likely has and that they would not share under any circumstances except for legal reasons. Without being able to show that is actually true, we could not include it in the letter. We only presented what we could document.

Even if there were data, I guess the other problem is establishing agreed upon expectations, or even harder the actual terms.  The subscription offers / ads seem to use similar soft language:  "first access", "first in line", "exclusive window".  All of which can be true, of course, and still not mean anything.  Did everyone notice how Mr. Oseary made the point to put the FIRST of "first in line" in all caps when he was mentioning but not addressing Citi?!

Yes, I did in fact have my own first access in an exclusive Innocence window that ordinary Citi and Verified Fan buyers did not.  The end result:  I saw no GA and got disappointing seats.  I then got lucky and got my own access to both Citi and Verified Fan in the days following and saw GA tickets for both, as well as comparable seats to those I had purchased in Innocence.

So I'd certainly bet a significant portion of tickets, GA included, were held back...never made available to me as an Innocence member, nor to those Experience subscribers before me.  The tough part, though, is:  does anything actually establish this as an infringement of the U2.com subscriber ticket benefit?  Common sense certainly would say yes, particularly as "outside" presale groups such as Citi are newly added, with better benefits (ticket quantity) of their own, and likely their own wedge of the allotment pie.

But I guess common sense and fairness unfortunately are pretty foreign ideas when it comes to concert tickets and their providers.  Or even band management it seems:  who cares about Citi, and their equally good (or better) tickets, and their higher limits, they weren't FIRST after all...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kidcurran1 said:

If you read some of the previous post then we can all be certain that the reason Citi and then the TM Verified Open Sale offered 4 tickets is so that TM can make double bubble on the tickets as it gives people the chance to buy more than needed and then sell the extras on for much more money. People in the fan club however would be more likely to use the tickets and actually attend shows meaning we offer much less to TM and it's re-sale scam. Simple really and summed up in the one word.......Greed.

Bang on.. Ticketmaster resale is scalping no doubt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the response I received today, which in summary only offer resolution by the additional dates:

"Due to higher than normal email volume we have fallen behind on responding to your emails. We're sorry that this has kept us from getting back to you in a timely manner and we are working diligently to get caught up.

We have had many inquiries regarding the upcoming #U2eiTour. We are happy to announce that new shows have been added and the registration has been reopened for an opportunity for U2.com Subscribers to purchase tickets to the new shows. If you have not already registered/completed Setup on U2.com and would like the opportunity to purchase tickets for the new shows make sure to follow the steps to register for the Verified Subscriber presales. Please log into your U2.com account and got to Account Info to view the instructions. http://www.u2.com/profile

If you previously completed your Setup and did not purchase tickets there is no need to register again. You will be considered registered for the new presales as well."

So what I am hearing is "sorry about the screw up, and try to buy some other tickets if the band happens to do additional dates near you.  But thanks for the subscriber money anyways!"

I honestly thought there would be a good faith attempt to resolve the issues that have come up recently. My issue is the same as many-long time fan club member, locked out of anything but $350 tix. 

Apparently I was overly hopeful, and again truly surprised by the outcome.  Thanks to all who have tried to resolve these issues - it sadly looks like my fan club days and support of the band's live shows are coming to a close.  Fairly bitter ending.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, sawheaton said:

Exactly what I'm thinking! What is the point of this presale when they don't include a significant allotment of GA's? Too many people claiming to come up with none. I wasn't able to get any. But there were lots of seats up in the rafters at stupid expensive prices. Seems to me they were trying to offload the bad seats on fan club members at top prices. 

And in regards to being able to use unused presale codes for the added dates!? Really?! How is that a benefit? That is what I was expecting and has always been the case. We know they add second dates in some cities and even add in new cities sometimes. Many people hold one or more codes to use when those go on sale. Saying we can use our codes for those new dates isn't some special treatment to make things right. 

For people like me who got my code sent out far to late to be of any use. Guy claims they are reaching out to make things right for those people but I've not heard anything. I'd like GA tickets for MSG or Las Vegas shows but I'm not getting any offers. I'm on the list and have been doing pretty much anything that can be expected.  

I received a presale code, attempted to use it for the first round of presale...it didn't even work! I replied to a thread with my email and phone # on Ticket master along with others who had the same issue. Was supposed to receive a new code, but never did. So now will I get one for the presale of the added shows? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to all the mods and fan sites all over the world 

Mr Oseary' answer just stated the obvious, no real solutions no real explanations 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, vertigojds said:

I can't specifically explain those, but in general... band management (for most bands, not just U2) will usually say that those are speculative listings, and that those sellers don't actually have those tickets. 

However, it's worth noting that it's against the rules at sites like StubHub to list tickets you don't have. Could all of these people just be breaking the rules? Possibly. 

The more upsetting possibility is that those tickets are being scalped by the band's management, promoters and corporate sponsors. I've seen a lot of tour contract riders leaked and posted for other bands where part of the contract includes delivering a quantity of high quality tickets for the band's own associates to scalp. 

Season ticket holders for sports teams at these venues also often have the opportunity to buy tickets directly from the venue before they go onsale to anyone else. 

So I fear it could be one or more of those things. 

Some fans get money from helping scalpers and bots...bands and management do not need that money....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, monica martino said:

Thanks to all the mods and fan sites all over the world 

Mr Oseary' answer just stated the obvious, no real solutions no real explanations 

 

Typical management speak...

a great deal of talk about what should have happened but no effort to address what did happen.

To sum up his response, "Sorry to hear that you didn't get tickets. We just announced new dates so you can try again."

This wouldn't have happened when Paul McGuinness was steering the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problems are indeed complex as there are basic market dynamics of supply and demand on the one hand, and, on the other, the feeling that
U2 and U2.COM could have done so much more in both the lead up and the aftermath of the presale fiasco. And, unfortunately, because of this
complexity there are simply no easy answers and solutions.
 
This is what I think of Guy Oseary's reply:
 
Mr. Oseary's letter is a diplomatic writing. Obviously the U2 manager recognizes the problems that people had with the various presales, but at the same time
tries to steer clear from the fact that U2 has a contract with Live Nation who, on their part, have contracts with the venues who have contracts with the (official)
ticket offices (TM, AXS). U2 management - on behalf of U2 – cannot simply walk away from those contracts, or change the outline and details from those agreements.
Especially not with U2’s core operation being rolled out as we speak, namely; performing in front of a live audience. This is both the craft and art of U2, as well
as it is their business for mostly pragmatic reasons (I don’t believe U2 is “in it” for the money: they are Artists first and foremost, but it has to roll!).
 
Now there are two sorts of issues that bother U2 fans: the first concerns the technical problems (e.g. the wrongly applied algorithm, codes not working), and the
other is with regard to the very idea of Verified Fan itself that promotes itself as “rooting out scalpers and bots,” but yet seemed to have worked merely in favor of
the secondary market. What makes the problem even more complex is that it looks like as if the secondary market has had a benefit from the technical issues.
 
But all of this comes down to the very practical concern of getting U2 fans to the U2 concerts. It is what the fans want, and I believe it is what U2 wants as well.
There is absolutely no interest for the band to be either the jukebox act for the money, or to play their new songs in front of a hostile crowd that wants to have
value for their hard paid cash. Where it all goes wrong, in my opinion, is that the contract U2 has with Live Nation allows for too few tickets for the U2.COM
long term subscribers.
    U2 has been around for roughly 40 years and because they are so good over this relatively long period of time, fans have grown with them. Some of these
long time fans have families now and want to take their kids with them to the concert, while others may have the financial means to travel abroad and see concerts there. Families need to buy four (4) tickets at least, while travelers don’t come over for just one show. This is why the CITI bank presale set so many bad blood,
because it felt unfair that those eligible were able to buy four (4), while long term subscribers only had opportunity (if they had at all!), for two (2).
 
Mr. Oseary, doesn’t address this CITI issue at all, but it is obvious that U2 is bound to these ticket allocations by contract. Still, I believe that this deal is not
good for fans and band alike. U2 management will do well to review this situation at their earliest convenience. This for reasons already outlined in the above,
but also because this CITI allocation gives supply to an unwanted demand of making Verified Money over the heads of Verified Fans.
 
Yes, there is something to say for Verified Fan as it diminishes the changes of fans buying fake tickets (I’ve seen it happen just a few months ago at a Stones concert
where two people paid € 450,- euro for false tickets – definitely unverified scalpers!), while still enabling people to resell their tickets in case when their plans have
changed for what reason whatsoever. But Verified Fan may not lead to Verified Scalping, as seems to have happened now.
 
In sum: the main problem for fans is the poor allocation of U2.COM subscriber tickets. Too few tickets were available for a legit fan based demand.
The technical problems only made the situation worse, and the fact that U2.COM has too little capacity to handle these problems made it even more worse.
Now U2 may be bound by contract, but it should be fair when at least it is recognized that whatever deal they got themselves into is not operating as was,  
and is desired. With that recognition given, I believe we can move forward to finding solutions. If not for now, then at least for the near and foreseeable future.
 
Joyce aka BiGgiRL
(u2start staff member)
 
Edited by B!gGiRL
layout
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is also possible that all or most of the venues have very specific contractual arrangements which mean that around 70% of all tickets sold are under their control rather than the band's promoter.  Often this means the venue has a direct tie in with Ticketmaster and corporate deals, aimed at maximising income over and above that which it gets for the venue hire.  This is becoming the norm now for major venues where they have a strong bargaining position.  For Ticketmaster (and indirectly Live Nation) this may also lead to additional revenue being generated via reseller market, but it is generally bad news for fans as allocations for areas such as GA and the better value seats can be severely restricted.

The business model has a changed a lot in recent years and it is only artists who are truly independent (and big enough) who have the ability to negotiate something different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, unforgettableu2 said:

i received email,  texted all three codes, green light/box.....confirmation. I never got GA.

Ok, but in fairness, that may have been the case anyway. Remember, participation in the presale has NEVER been a guarantee that you will get GA, or any other ticket, for that matter. I truly wish we could separate the people who were really shafted - and I know there were many - from those who simply did not get GA. It is much tougher to get GA for the smaller arena shows, and that has always been the case. I realize some of that this time was the result of the incongruity with ticket limits, but I will address that under separate cover. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CorkVegan said:

Typical management speak...

a great deal of talk about what should have happened but no effort to address what did happen.

To sum up his response, "Sorry to hear that you didn't get tickets. We just announced new dates so you can try again."

This wouldn't have happened when Paul McGuinness was steering the ship.

I had the exact same thought. I miss McGuiness!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a little confused.  I thought you could ask for a refund if you didn't receive a code.  Honestly, I have two U2.com accounts and renewed them both on time.  I received both the "Congrats" email and then two hours later the "You are not getting a code" email.  That 2nd one said you could ask for a refund.  I recently received this email

 

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out, I’d be more than happy to see what we can do to help.

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately U2.com Subscriptions are nonrefundable per the terms and condition you agreed to upon purchasing your Subscription. Our apologies for any inconvenience.  

It’s been my pleasure to assist you, please let us know if you need anything else.

Sincerely,
Alejandro
U2.com Team

 

 

Am I missing something?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks and congratulations to the signatories of the open letter to the band; it was extremely well researched and written, and represents the fan base well in bringing very legitimate concerns to the fore. Had this been an actual petition, I would have signed it too! Frankly, the letter to management is more clearly and well written than the response from management. Some have already pointed out that management has outright dodged a couple of clear questions, and I think Biggirl hit the nail on the head when she dissected the response. Although I was one of the fortunate ones in Experience group who did get 2 GAs, I too, am very unhappy with the clear dichotomy posed by the fact that we were limited to 2 tickets while Citi bank holders were limited to 4. I completely agree that this has especially shut out families - we have in the past brought our 2 children with us, and therefore required 4 GAs. The only reason that didn't impact me this time is that we are having to travel hours out of our way to see a show, as there is none in Toronto, and that is too expensive an undertaking to bring my kids, who also can't afford the time off work in the summer for that length of a trip. I am still hoping that part will be rectified by the time a second leg is announced that may include Toronto. 

It is likely that some of Guy's "non-answer" is related to contractual stuff, and also likely that this includes non-disclosure, meaning he cannot actually come out and say that they have shaken hands with the devil that is Live Nation/Ticketmaster. I truly hope that the band, once this contract expires, is more careful in future.

Again, congratulations and THANK YOU to the signatories for representing the fans so well!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, edgebenson said:

I have two U2.com accounts and renewed them both on time.  I received both the "Congrats" email and then two hours later the "You are not getting a code" email.  That 2nd one said you could ask for a refund.  I recently received this email

 

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out, I’d be more than happy to see what we can do to help.

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately U2.com Subscriptions are nonrefundable per the terms and condition you agreed to upon purchasing your Subscription. Our apologies for any inconvenience.  

It’s been my pleasure to assist you, please let us know if you need anything else.

Sincerely,
Alejandro
U2.com Team

 

 

Am I missing something?  

If both the accounts are under your name or any data is in common you broke the rules and this might be the reason for not getting the code 

Send them back the mail offering the reimbursement

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, monica martino said:

If both the accounts are under your name or any data is in common you broke the rules and this might be the reason for not getting the code 

Send them back the mail offering the reimbursement

Sorry, no rules broken here.  I have had these two accounts for over 10 years and U2.com has never said you can't have two accounts.  I am sure there are many of us that have two or more accounts so you can get Presale tickets for multiple shows.  Why would they take my money each year if I was breaking any rules?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, edgebenson said:

Sorry, no rules broken here.  I have had these two accounts for over 10 years and U2.com has never said you can't have two accounts.  I am sure there are many of us that have two or more accounts so you can get Presale tickets for multiple shows.  Why would they take my money each year if I was breaking any rules?  

Perhaps not actually breaking any rules BUT, you may be one of the people contributing to the problem. What if everyone decided to have multiple accounts so that they could get more tickets? Perhaps one account per person should be a rule if it is not already.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Tracy M said:

Perhaps not actually breaking any rules BUT, you may be one of the people contributing to the problem. What if everyone decided to have multiple accounts so that they could get more tickets? Perhaps one account per person should be a rule if it is not already.

ok, fair enough, I will go in and cancel that 2nd account.  I don't want people to think that I am the problem.  I have too much invested in this band.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, just went into that 2nd account and it's under my wife's name so that is probably why the let me renew.  Honestly, I totally agree that you should only have one account and U2.com should put that in the Terms and Conditions.  For example, only one account per address or phone number, etc.  I would have to put part of blame as well on U2.com for letting households set up multiple accounts.  All I want is two freaking tickets to either Philly show.  Hopefully, we all get the tickets we want in 2nd round.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, edgebenson said:

ok, fair enough, I will go in and cancel that 2nd account.  I don't want people to think that I am the problem.  I have too much invested in this band.  

it's in the Terms & Conditions, one account per person. if you had multiple accounts then you have an unfair advantage over others and it is logical to see why the algorithm didn't issue a code. It's the reason an algorithm was instituted this time around ... I'm sure you meant no disrespect, just giving you some information from the site:

"We will grant only one membership per person. If we determine that a single person has joined (or attempted to join) more than once, or if we receive multiple membership applications from a single and/or cluster of e-mail addresses verified to single person, we may cancel all applicable memberships and invalidate any tickets purchase via the membership(s)."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, habitmade said:

it's in the Terms & Conditions, one account per person. if you had multiple accounts then you have an unfair advantage over others and it is logical to see why the algorithm didn't issue a code. It's the reason an algorithm was instituted this time around ... I'm sure you meant no disrespect, just giving you some information from the site:

"We will grant only one membership per person. If we determine that a single person has joined (or attempted to join) more than once, or if we receive multiple membership applications from a single and/or cluster of e-mail addresses verified to single person, we may cancel all applicable memberships and invalidate any tickets purchase via the membership(s)."

Ok, 10O% correct.  Thanks for the information, much appreciated.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am utterly disgusted at this point.  I got this email last night and I feel defeated.  I thought I had some glimmer of hope to get tickets for the additional dates.  I am basically being shut out of any opportunity of getting tickets. I have been a fan since Propaganda and have made sure I renew my membership.  They want to ensure that true fans get an opportunity to get tickets but I am seeing  tickets being sold for ridiculous prices on sites such as stub hub, seat geek, etc.  I thought I did everything right I renewed my subscription in September.  When I learned about this tour my set was complete and I got the innocence group which again I was ok with.  The Day of the presale anxious awaiting for a code and nothing.  I called & emailed and was told it was a lottery and I was not chosen.  The saw in a statement that U2 management stated there was no lottery.  Now I get this?!?!?  This is the first tour I may not be able to get a ticket and I have been a fan for years.  

230632BF-B55D-4EA5-9BE5-E858239B6542.thumb.png.c843ea0132f32714a49a01b6e4f0232f.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, habitmade said:

it's in the Terms & Conditions, one account per person. if you had multiple accounts then you have an unfair advantage over others and it is logical to see why the algorithm didn't issue a code. It's the reason an algorithm was instituted this time around ... I'm sure you meant no disrespect, just giving you some information from the site:

"We will grant only one membership per person. If we determine that a single person has joined (or attempted to join) more than once, or if we receive multiple membership applications from a single and/or cluster of e-mail addresses verified to single person, we may cancel all applicable memberships and invalidate any tickets purchase via the membership(s)."

But taken from this, it is 100& legit for a household of four (4) to have four (4) memberships / subscriptions.

(I don't however see this issue being relevant to the subject of this thread: the letter from Guy Oseary...)

 

Edited by B!gGiRL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I decided to do more research and it does not make any sense. I got email saying because I purchased ticket and used my presale code during the Joshua tree tour I am not eligible for a presale code this tour but if you read below on the website it does not state this.  I should be eligible to get a presale code for this tour. My setup is complete and I am in the innocence group and I never got a presale code in the 1st leg of presale blitz.  Now thinking I may have a chance with additional dates again i may not get a code.  It just is not right!

83386B14-E7B5-46BE-865F-0D1881D72B89.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, B!gGiRL said:

But taken from this, it is 100& legit for a household of four (4) to have four (4) memberships / subscriptions.

(I don't however see this issue being relevant to the subject of this thread: the letter from Guy Oseary...)

 

If the members are 18+, then you are correct.

" In order to use and access the features and services provided by this Site you must be 18 years of age or older. If you are not an adult, please stop and discontinue your use of this website."

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now