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adrnik

Music is “girly” - interview with Bono

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1 hour ago, adrnik said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42502453

Does Bono have a point? Could he have chosen his words better?

if you disagree what examples could you point Bono to?

 

 

adrnik...

I read the article, actually a few times....

I think it was a well written article by Rolling Stone and some great questions were asked.

I think Bono meant the current 'sound' of music is catering to a younger/less mature demographic. Bubble gum music....not rich in sound or complexity..."juvenile'' or shallow would have been a better choice of words. I  think Bono's choice of words sounded  a bit misogynist...but, I really don't think that was his intent.

I also interpreted what Bono meant is our world/culture/music has become so politically correct,  safe, soft or 'neutered'......homogenized.....

But, still....plenty of girl musicians have made raw/angry music in the past.....it maybe less scarce until recent years. Music has become so bastardized and generic.....without true conviction/identity.....whether it's created by a male or female musician/band.

I think this is what Bono was attempting to say....but his got lost in translation.....:huh:

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This is the worst example of clickbait I've seen in a long, long time. 

This is one tiny, tiny quote in a really long interview where Bono talks about a multitude of subjects. Here he was in the middle of an anecdote talking about his son being in a band and being a strong believer in a rock & roll revolution. He was saying that he felt there aren't enough outlets for young male anger - which in itself is a valid point. There aren't. Young men are told that things like crying, expressing emotions and things like that are "girly"/"not boy things" (or something along those lines) which can cause negative emotion to build up into anger and can have consequences for both men and women in later life. That anger and negative emotion needs to be released in some way before it can do real damage, and that's along the lines of what he was getting at. 

But anyway, as I was saying... It's just ridiculous how a bunch of websites like the above took a short sentence from a much longer interview that covered so much stuff and made it the headline of their story. It was taken completely out of the context of what Bono was saying, and that's my real bugbear with journalism these days. I guess "girly" was the wrong choice of words - something like "more female-driven" might have been better. But now they're going to try and take that quote and use it to paint him as some sort of old-fashioned, sexist pig who's no better than Trump or Weinstein or whoever else. Me, and anyone else who saw the Joshua Tree tour this summer and watched them play Ultraviolet with the celebration of great women on the screens, will know that that's not the case. But most other people who weren't at the Joshua Tree tour (and thus didn't see Ultraviolet and the celebration of women) probably hate Bono's guts, and as a result, won't bother doing any digging to actually look at the quote in the context of what he was saying. That's where clickbait by journalists keen for more hits on their websites meets bad reading comprehension from readers (not aimed at anyone on here), and that's when the damage is done.

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2 hours ago, unforgettableu2 said:

I think Bono meant the current 'sound' of music is catering to a younger/less mature demographic. Bubble gum music....not rich in sound or complexity..."juvenile'' or shallow would have been a better choice of words

And The Beatles weren't?

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1 hour ago, Grande 3:16 said:

And The Beatles weren't?

The Beatles music grew with each album though. from Rubber Soul on it's all gravy :POP_Heart_01:

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2 hours ago, Grande 3:16 said:

And The Beatles weren't?

Grande.....

I see your point.....and since the birth of Rock N' Roll.....shallow/bubble-gum and teen idols have been synonymous.....

Beatles were guilty of this...for sure. But was it intentional? I don't think so....at least to my knowledge. But, I know record labels had much control over these marketing ploys....similar to today. Carving a name/brand/image that the main stream will like/accept easily. It seems now....the  music industry is lost..... with no identity marking this era/generation. 'ACCEPT' its known for sounding all the same...and a recycled blend of mediocrity.....Punk rock is out....pop is in....

What is 'in'..... is to blend in.....benign and not to offend.....be neutral/politically correct.

U2's current music may reflect a bit of this new culture....whether they're cognitive of it or not.....

Their punk rock/rebellious roots surface.....but, they are a far cry from that youthful, angry place. Of course they've matured/grown from then.......but, U2 has never been a mainstream band or 'sound'.....( they may have tried/failed)^_^

They've always stood out....even in the 80's when music was clearly diverse and alternative in sounds......

Now they really stand out(for the wrong reasons)....and are misunderstood.....because they are trying to find there purpose/identity in a arena they have always reigned over for almost four decades.....

Is rock N' roll dead? or it never really died? Trump had revived a new rebellion and anger in many.(obviously in U2 as well).....and art/music will surely reflect this......

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3 hours ago, peterferris8 said:

This is the worst example of clickbait I've seen in a long, long time. 

This is one tiny, tiny quote in a really long interview where Bono talks about a multitude of subjects. Here he was in the middle of an anecdote talking about his son being in a band and being a strong believer in a rock & roll revolution. He was saying that he felt there aren't enough outlets for young male anger - which in itself is a valid point. There aren't. Young men are told that things like crying, expressing emotions and things like that are "girly"/"not boy things" (or something along those lines) which can cause negative emotion to build up into anger and can have consequences for both men and women in later life. That anger and negative emotion needs to be released in some way before it can do real damage, and that's along the lines of what he was getting at. 

But anyway, as I was saying... It's just ridiculous how a bunch of websites like the above took a short sentence from a much longer interview that covered so much stuff and made it the headline of their story. It was taken completely out of the context of what Bono was saying, and that's my real bugbear with journalism these days. I guess "girly" was the wrong choice of words - something like "more female-driven" might have been better. But now they're going to try and take that quote and use it to paint him as some sort of old-fashioned, sexist pig who's no better than Trump or Weinstein or whoever else. Me, and anyone else who saw the Joshua Tree tour this summer and watched them play Ultraviolet with the celebration of great women on the screens, will know that that's not the case. But most other people who weren't at the Joshua Tree tour (and thus didn't see Ultraviolet and the celebration of women) probably hate Bono's guts, and as a result, won't bother doing any digging to actually look at the quote in the context of what he was saying. That's where clickbait by journalists keen for more hits on their websites meets bad reading comprehension from readers (not aimed at anyone on here), and that's when the damage is done.

Peter....

I am Female....so obviously....I'll have a different perspective and not completely understand what it feels to be "male".

Yes....traditionally in the past, males have been taught to suppress their feelings/emotions....and for women it is more socially acceptable to be demonstrative with self- expression.

I have to say though...times are changing....especially for men.....and it's never been more safe or acceptable for men to 'cry' or express emotions. However, the double standard still exists and  emotion/ affection are still considered female attributes.

Yet....with all the gender fluidity/neutrality these days....culturally the lines have been blurred with what is acceptable male/female behaviors.....

I think this cultural shift is reflected in the current music. Neutrality is the new punk movement....if that makes any sense.....for this generation.

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I am TRIPPING more about how the MEDIA is running with BONO TRASHING USA...WTF was Bono thinking? He is usually much more articulate. I am BAFFLED. That interview should NEVER have seen the light of day. 

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8 hours ago, wahine said:

I am TRIPPING more about how the MEDIA is running with BONO TRASHING USA...WTF was Bono thinking? He is usually much more articulate. I am BAFFLED. That interview should NEVER have seen the light of day. 

Yes Bono is very articulate, for sure.....

but, he also says what is on his mind.....sometimes unfiltered....which I like about him. However, being honest/transparent is not the way of the world....which is very passive/aggressive. Bono knows this.....and probably doesn't care.....it was what he wanted to express....and did. Better choice of words? probably.....but, his intent was not to be taken "literally".....and many people are literal thinkers. This is why Bono gets in trouble....because of how he thinks is so abstractly or metaphoric.

I was more agitated that Bono keeps bringing up his health scare but then buttons up about the specific details....even a general outline would suffice. If he doesn't want it discussed....then don't allude or speak of it to arouse such curiosity in the media/fans alike.

The "girlie" comment is Bono speaking off the cuff....and not to be taken in literal terms.

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Thanks for your comments.

 

I was curious what folk made of this from the U2 community.

It originally took me a couple of reads to get to the point Bono seems to be making. I’d agree with comments above but would add that for someone who seems to work hard at using words to express ideas etc the “girly” comment was at best lazy.

Those outside of the U2 fan base really do not require such things to fuel their dislike and for what is an important point it has been lost somewhat in the literal interpretation and mis-reporting.

 

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On 12/29/2017 at 12:06 PM, adrnik said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42502453

Does Bono have a point? Could he have chosen his words better?

if you disagree what examples could you point Bono to?

 

 

 

Yes, he could have chosen his words better but it's also Bono. He says whats on his mind. Sometimes eloquently, other times not. He is who he is. 

I'm not going to dismiss people who feel offended by this quote. They've said things on occasion I've been offended by. In the end I believe their heart is in the right place and as long as they continue to demonstrate that, I'll look past the odd comment and etc and continue to love them just as they are.

Bono does have a point although I wouldn't say "girly" more like empty. There's no depth to most popular music these days. Hire the right producer and song writing team and bam, you have a hit.. It's empty and meaningless. The artist performing these songs don't feel what they are singing because someone wrote it for them. Or there is no real thought and feeling put into the songs they're putting out. They're just going through the motions. Also I absolutely loathe overly repetitive lyrics in songs. This seems to be what is in with Pop music. I do like a wide variety of music and have enjoyed music who stays away from this formula but in looking at the bigger picture it's few and far between.

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4 hours ago, unforgettableu2 said:

Yes Bono is very articulate, for sure.....

but, he also says what is on his mind.....sometimes unfiltered....which I like about him. However, being honest/transparent is not the way of the world....which is very passive/aggressive. Bono knows this.....and probably doesn't care.....it was what he wanted to express....and did. Better choice of words? probably.....but, his intent was not what was not to be taken "literally".....and many people are literal thinkers. This is why Bono gets in trouble....because of how he thinks is so abstractly or metaphoric.

I was more agitated that Bono keeps bringing up his health scare but then buttons up about the specific details....even a general outline would suffice. If he doesn't want it discussed....then don't allude or speak of it to arouse such curiosity in the media/fans alike.

The "girlie" comment is Bono speaking off the cuff....and not to be taken in literal terms.

I think his health scare had something to do with that door flying off the Lear Jet and all his luggage and his friends sucked out on his way to Germany for the Bambi awards. I know my oldest brother is involved bigtime in Aviation and it was a very big deal. For sure, they are all lucky they all lived!

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3 hours ago, adrnik said:

Thanks for your comments.

 

I was curious what folk made of this from the U2 community.

It originally took me a couple of reads to get to the point Bono seems to be making. I’d agree with comments above but would add that for someone who seems to work hard at using words to express ideas etc the “girly” comment was at best lazy.

Those outside of the U2 fan base really do not require such things to fuel their dislike and for what is an important point it has been lost somewhat in the literal interpretation and mis-reporting.

 

The MEDIA is ripping him up over it. Twitter is ballistic, calling him all kinds of sexist names. Its bad... I dont really care, I just did not like the Headlines I have been seeing today saying he trashed the USA, ruded the USA, on and on and on....It's even on CNN, and those news outlets.

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3 hours ago, wahine said:

The MEDIA is ripping him up over it. Twitter is ballistic, calling him all kinds of sexist names. Its bad... I dont really care, I just did not like the Headlines I have been seeing today saying he trashed the USA, ruded the USA, on and on and on....It's even on CNN, and those news outlets.

It is quite sad.....really.

it's cool to bash Bono these days....as much as Trump.....EXCEPT Trump deserves it.....;)

Hey....even Jesus wasn't popular when he walked the earth despite his true followers....even crucified him, too.....literally.

Humanity is cruel....always has been....always will be.

Does Bono make mistakes? of course......and he'd be the first to admit  he was wrong. His words weren't intentionally misogynistic.....Bono loves and respects women...clearly.   common sense seems to be a rare thing of today.......

 

 

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3 hours ago, wahine said:

I think his health scare had something to do with that door flying off the Lear Jet and all his luggage and his friends sucked out on his way to Germany for the Bambi awards. I know my oldest brother is involved bigtime in Aviation and it was a very big deal. For sure, they are all lucky they all lived!

Wahine....

I totally get that.....I could only imagine what that felt like.....very scary..... and within a blink of eye......

Maybe a bit of post traumatic stress he endured? or.... Re evaluated how fragile life is and what his priorities are?

Does that equate to a physical health scare, though? Maybe?

why can't he just disclose a brief outline of what occurred? He keeps bringing it up and how it influenced the new album.....I think he wants to tell.....but, something holds him back....

The truth may set him free????? or not.....? Maybe time will tell......the truth always seems to seep through the cracks.....

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Classic transference. Bono is actually talking about U2'smusic. Compare SOE (2017) to Pop (1997).

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I think he's right, and he's not being sexist. He said that the girly situation wasn't all bad, and he didn't say he wanted it to go away. He just wants some more stuff for the boys, which is completely possible without taking away or beating down any of the girly music. I'm a girl, but I prefer rock to pop, and I'm waiting for the day it revives (maybe I can help it somehow). Rock on, Bono and Eli!

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On 12/30/2017 at 10:41 PM, unforgettableu2 said:

Wahine....

I totally get that.....I could only imagine what that felt like.....very scary..... and within a blink of eye......

Maybe a bit of post traumatic stress he endured? or.... Re evaluated how fragile life is and what his priorities are?

Does that equate to a physical health scare, though? Maybe?

why can't he just disclose a brief outline of what occurred? He keeps bringing it up and how it influenced the new album.....I think he wants to tell.....but, something holds him back....

The truth may set him free????? or not.....? Maybe time will tell......the truth always seems to seep through the cracks.....

Bono has a really hard time keeping secrets, so if he's keeping the lid on his health scare successfully, it must have been traumatic indeed. Maybe he'll talk about it one day, but I don't need or want to know about it before then. I don't doubt it was something real and scary, but I don't want to waste time on useless pity that he doesn't need or want.

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On 2/14/2018 at 8:43 PM, Europa_Thomas said:

Bono has a really hard time keeping secrets, so if he's keeping the lid on his health scare successfully, it must have been traumatic indeed. Maybe he'll talk about it one day, but I don't need or want to know about it before then. I don't doubt it was something real and scary, but I don't want to waste time on useless pity that he doesn't need or want.

Europa....

Yes, Bono wears his heart on his sleeve..... he is usually as transparent as ice.....(whether he is deliberately attempting to conceal or not)

Truth for Bono is like breathing....automatic....compulsive....and he defines himself by his strong beliefs/convictions....

So yes, for Bono to hold back  information on his personal health scare...speaks louder than words.  Yet....he offers a tease here or there by briefly referencing to it about how it shaped SOE.....

In psychological terms....he wants to 'talk'....but just can't reveal due to fear of some sort.(think about any victim of a traumatic event or experiences)....Some bury/repress it, deny it, project it on others and many leave bread crumbs for clues.....in desperation for others to piece together what really occurred without the actual responsibility of confirming or denying it.....

Something major happened....for sure.....and I think the truth would set him free......the sample size bites of truth he offers suggests he wants to unload this secret....for concealing it has become a full-time job and internal burden.

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5 hours ago, unforgettableu2 said:

Europa....

Yes, Bono wears his heart on his sleeve..... he is usually as transparent as ice.....(whether he is deliberately attempting to conceal or not)

Truth for Bono is like breathing....automatic....compulsive....and he defines himself by his strong beliefs/convictions....

So yes, for Bono to hold back  information on his personal health scare...speaks louder than words.  Yet....he offers a tease here or there by briefly referencing to it about how it shaped SOE.....

In psychological terms....he wants to 'talk'....but just can't reveal due to fear of some sort.(think about any victim of a traumatic event or experiences)....Some bury/repress it, deny it, project it on others and many leave bread crumbs for clues.....in desperation for others to piece together what really occurred without the actual responsibility of confirming or denying it.....

Something major happened....for sure.....and I think the truth would set him free......the sample size bites of truth he offers suggests he wants to unload this secret....for concealing it has become a full-time job and internal burden.

I see what you’re saying now. The whole truth will set Bono free, when he’s ready. Maybe all the little hints that escape are a result of his truth telling instinct and his fear fighting inside him. His fear is still too strong to let him speak out, but his instinct can’t be entirely suppressed. It must be rough. I’ll keep praying for him.

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On 2/17/2018 at 7:38 PM, Europa_Thomas said:

I see what you’re saying now. The whole truth will set Bono free, when he’s ready. Maybe all the little hints that escape are a result of his truth telling instinct and his fear fighting inside him. His fear is still too strong to let him speak out, but his instinct can’t be entirely suppressed. It must be rough. I’ll keep praying for him.

Yes....Europa....exactly!

It really must be hard for him not to reveal what happened.....for If he really wanted to keep it under lock and key....he would have never mentioned it in any context at all.

You are right in stating Bono's "instinct" is to share or be emotionally open/transparent .....and repressing his innate guide is probably causing great dissonance within him.

His actions speak louder than his finely abridged words.....

it's not what you say...its often what you don't that reveals so much truth....

I pray for Bono and the band as well.....for I am intuitively sensing something is not quite right with the band's cohesion/direction.....or it's creatively imbalanced somehow.

Observe Larry's energy.......for he doesn't seem happy....and appears to be quite thin......

Aging sucks......and comes with all sorts of unexpected ailments and life adjustments.....

Flexibility is the key and one of the hardest aspects of inertia and the aging process....

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13 hours ago, unforgettableu2 said:

Yes....Europa....exactly!

It really must be hard for him not to reveal what happened.....for If he really wanted to keep it under lock and key....he would have never mentioned it in any context at all.

You are right in stating Bono's "instinct" is to share or be emotionally open/transparent .....and repressing his innate guide is probably causing great dissonance within him.

His actions speak louder than his finely abridged words.....

it's not what you say...its often what you don't that reveals so much truth....

I pray for Bono and the band as well.....for I am intuitively sensing something is not quite right with the band's cohesion/direction.....or it's creatively imbalanced somehow.

Observe Larry's energy.......for he doesn't seem happy....and appears to be quite thin......

Aging sucks......and comes with all sorts of unexpected ailments and life adjustments.....

Flexibility is the key and one of the hardest aspects of inertia and the aging process....

I haven’t paid as much attention to Larry, since he’s way better at keeping secrets than Bono and he’s always been thin, but he’s a health nut and the band’s voice of reason, so if he’s lethargic or upset, that’s troubling for him and the whole band. U2 needs all of its members and it needs them all happy and healthy, but what the members need for happiness and health change somewhat with time, and those changes are rarely insignificant, especially changing old habits. St. Luke (patron saint of doctors and health and artists ), St. Cecilia, St. Gregory the Great, St. Apollonia, St. Genesius, St. John Ogilve (patron saints of music, musicians, singers, dancers, and entertainers), and St. Patrick and Our Lady of Knock, pray for U2, their families, the friends, and their fans.

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With Larry I think it's more to do with previous lingering health issues (he had back issues stemming from I think an injury during the Joshua Tree tour '87 which then peaked when the band were recording Pop). I found myself trawling through the U2 Interference message boards and found this post (original thread here: http://www.u2interference.com/forums/f189/tension-between-band-members-205648-2.html). Quoted post follows. 

"I think that Larry in general is hard to read. He can come off as not particularly warm or charming when on stage. 

I can personally attest. I worked security for the Somerville promo gig, and it is just like this:

A.)He beats the hell out of those drums and there is an INTENSE focus. Seriously, my bones rattled and my chest and neck pulsed every single time he hit a bass drum or a cymbal! Especially the crashes during Breathe, which were going right into my throat!

B.)He plays in a lot of pain, obviously. Tendonitis, back issues, etc. As a result, and again, I was 8 feet from him the whole show, he often shows it!

Even though I am well aware of A and B, I kept thinking the whole time "Larry looks PISSED at me, like he is directly looking at me and thinking he will fucking kill me." And this was an hour after I had a conversation with him about my aunt's first show in 1980 and before he talked to me after the show as they were leaving! I of course knew he was the nice, down to earth, not a mean bone in the body Larry we are familiar with, but while he was up there on stage, wow!

It was to the point where I kept thinking "am I dreaming?" "did I unknowingly man handle some innocent patron out the door like a hells angel security guard and Larry noticed and is now pissed at me?"

I know I won't make any sense to the average person here, but that is literally how intense he is behind the kit, with no exaggeration at all. If you are near him, you will think he is mad and you will think he is staring a hole through your head!

But talk to him 10 minutes before or after and the best way I can describe it is he comes off exactly the same as he did in the R&H interview where he is sitting at the table talking about Elvis as "Heartland" segues into "Bad." Polite, deferential, smiles and is willing to have a conversation, not just a "hey" on the way by.

So bottom line, he is hard to read!"

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