dermo

The Elephant in the room - the GA queue !

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For Dublin on the last tour it was a joke. People starting a GA list nights before the gig in some random place. Then they turn up on the day at the venue and think the list they started on a piece of paper days before and not even started at the venue should be followed by people that turned up on the day earlier than they did.

These people are delusional. It’s a big clique. Just before the doors open they couldn’t care less about who is in the line as long as they get right at the front. Then they stand in front on U2 for the 30th time on the tour and bore the arses off the band as they’ve seen the same faces on the front barrier night after night. 

Its funny to see them expect a reaction from Bono and they don’t get it. 

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21 hours ago, vertigojds said:

My edit button doesn't seem to be working this second but I just wanted to add the following:

I'll go with whatever rule system the band and venue come up with.  I'd prefer a Springsteen-type lottery, but I don't think it's a requirement.

What I think is essential is that whatever rule is posted for all to see must be the rule that is followed.

My problem with a lot of the fan-run lists is that they go against clearly posted information, and most people won't have access to info about what the fan-run line is doing.

For example, on every show I saw in 2015 and 2017 that I had GA tickets for, I received an email in advance from Ticketmaster and/or the venue, outlining what the procedure would be for GA ticket holders.  All GA ticket holders got this email - about 2000 ticket holders for the indoor shows, and about 10,000 ticket holders for the outdoor shows.  If 10,000 people get an email saying "This is the time you can show up, this is where to go, and you can't get there earlier than X", there can't be a second set of rules for a select few that completely contradict the information that everyone else has been given.  And, if you got an email from the band, the venue, or the ticket agency, or visited the venue's website, or saw information posted on Twitter from the official source, why would you continue to look for unofficial lineup rules?  You probably wouldn't.  You'd see the rules posted and just assume that those were the rules for everyone.  As they should be.

I'll go with whatever the official rule is.  But I don't want another scenario where I follow every bit of guidance offered by the band and the venue, and then am penalized for following the rules because the rulebreakers have been let in ahead of me.

I agree with all of what you are saying.  I believe we discussed this on the last tour.   A big part of the problem is that most of the venues did not enforce the rules that they originally posted and sent out to GA ticket holders.  They caved in to these line "leaders" who convinced onsite security that they were "helping" organize the line.  Until venue security enforces their own rules or U2 takes over control of the GA line, this will continue to be a problem for the rest of us who are trying to follow directions.

Edited by afg
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I found some of the responses in the thread interesting. Personally I don't believe in anything 'Fan Run' if it's not sanctioned by the venue then if a fellow fan(s) is going take it upon themselves to create a system I am going to take it upon myself to ignore it. Manohlive  hit on this above and I have seen this type of thing more often then not.

I don't mean that to sound like I'm being an A**hole if there is no 'system' created by the band/venue then a GA ticket is a GA ticket and I will get on a line, enter like anyone else and that's it. I gave up getting there super early because there was a lot of this fan BS people marking their hands with numbers and coming back hours later and sh*t it's ridiculous. We all purchased a GA ticket and that's it but due to this and not lining up early any more I typically stand toward the back or out of the way in GA because I don't want to deal with the BS or the pushing and shoving of the crowd but, in all honesty, there was one show I pushed my way up a bit and don't feel bad about it at all, it's GA there is no rule.

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1 hour ago, afg said:

I agree with all of what you are saying.  I believe we discussed this on the last tour.   A big part of the problem is that most of the venues did not enforce the rules that they originally posted and sent out to GA ticket holders.  They caved in to these line "leaders" who convinced onsite security that they were "helping" organize the line.  Until venue security enforces their own rules or U2 takes over control of the GA line, this will continue to be a problem for the rest of us who are trying to follow directions.

I think part of the problem is that venues generally hate GA - it means that people will be lining up on their property hours earlier than the actual event, which will cause them to have to hire security and other people that they wouldn't have to hire if it was assigned seating.  A fan-run system that allows people to not actually be at the venue ends up benefiting the venue, which is probably why they turn a blind eye to this or work with those list people.

I think giving out numbers is a good thing, whether that's done by a sharpie or by giving out wristbands.  It's extremely difficult to maintain a single file line in a small space for hours upon hours, and having something tangible that establishes where each person belongs is extremely helpful.  And I think it's just basic human courtesy to allow someone to temporarily leave the line to use the bathroom or to quickly pick up food.  It's unreasonable to expect everyone to stand in place for twelve hours and not need to use a restroom or not need a cup of water.  Having the numbers can be helfpul in that limited context. 

The problem is when I show up around noon at a venue and there's absolutely no one there except for a guy with a list and a bad attitude in a beach chair - but I'm told that I'm actually #200 or #500, and that all of those other people will be back at 5pm.  That's not one person using the restroom and someone else holding their spot.  That's not even a line.

That type of system only works when everyone is alerted in advance.  The TD Garden in Boston does this for many GA shows - they tell people in advance that on the morning of the show, beginning at 9am, you may show up and get a numbered wristband and then leave the venue until 5pm.  And everyone is given that same information and can make plans accordingly and it's fine.  But absent that, a handful of fans cannot be allowed to take it upon themselves to decide to do the same. 

Like I was saying before, venue management generally goes with the fan list, which is a problem.  And when venue management doesn't, those fans can revolt in a really unpleasant way.  I was completely and utterly shocked that the list people resorted to violence in Foxboro last summer when their list wasn't honored.  They were told by the venue days beforehand that it wouldn't be honored.  They were told again the night before it wouldn't be honored.  They were told the morning of the show that it wouldn't be honored.  And then, when the venue actually did exactly what they said and didn't honor the list, the people on it reacted in a disgraceful manner.  I ended up waiting in the parking lot away from both the venue sanctioned line and the fan line until the doors opened because it wasn't worth taking the risk of being injured to attend the show.

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1 hour ago, vertigojds said:

I think part of the problem is that venues generally hate GA - it means that people will be lining up on their property hours earlier than the actual event, which will cause them to have to hire security and other people that they wouldn't have to hire if it was assigned seating.  A fan-run system that allows people to not actually be at the venue ends up benefiting the venue, which is probably why they turn a blind eye to this or work with those list people.

I think giving out numbers is a good thing, whether that's done by a sharpie or by giving out wristbands.  It's extremely difficult to maintain a single file line in a small space for hours upon hours, and having something tangible that establishes where each person belongs is extremely helpful.  And I think it's just basic human courtesy to allow someone to temporarily leave the line to use the bathroom or to quickly pick up food.  It's unreasonable to expect everyone to stand in place for twelve hours and not need to use a restroom or not need a cup of water.  Having the numbers can be helfpul in that limited context. 

The problem is when I show up around noon at a venue and there's absolutely no one there except for a guy with a list and a bad attitude in a beach chair - but I'm told that I'm actually #200 or #500, and that all of those other people will be back at 5pm.  That's not one person using the restroom and someone else holding their spot.  That's not even a line.

That type of system only works when everyone is alerted in advance.  The TD Garden in Boston does this for many GA shows - they tell people in advance that on the morning of the show, beginning at 9am, you may show up and get a numbered wristband and then leave the venue until 5pm.  And everyone is given that same information and can make plans accordingly and it's fine.  But absent that, a handful of fans cannot be allowed to take it upon themselves to decide to do the same. 

Like I was saying before, venue management generally goes with the fan list, which is a problem.  And when venue management doesn't, those fans can revolt in a really unpleasant way.  I was completely and utterly shocked that the list people resorted to violence in Foxboro last summer when their list wasn't honored.  They were told by the venue days beforehand that it wouldn't be honored.  They were told again the night before it wouldn't be honored.  They were told the morning of the show that it wouldn't be honored.  And then, when the venue actually did exactly what they said and didn't honor the list, the people on it reacted in a disgraceful manner.  I ended up waiting in the parking lot away from both the venue sanctioned line and the fan line until the doors opened because it wasn't worth taking the risk of being injured to attend the show.

Funny thing, I was at that Foxboro show.  Showed up 4:45 and was 3 rows back from the top of the B stage.  I know that wouldn’t happen at an arena show but I would be willing to show up earlier if I knew things were organized fairly.

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They opened the doors for that show at 5pm, right?  I think I walked over from the parking lot at exactly 5pm, walked up to the gates, walked in, and got the exact spot that I was hoping for - b-stage to my immediate left, main stage dead center right in front of me.  I could have been much closer, but I was going with friends and we wanted a vantage point that covered the whole stage, and that spot was perfect for that.

I had one night on the I&E tour in 2015 where I had general admission tickets but couldn't make it to the venue before the doors opened.  I think I got there at 6:30pm, and wound up one or two people back from the railing.  I was about three inches behind where I was the night before when I had waited for twelve hours.

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15 hours ago, doctornickriviera said:

No idea what this little guy is doing down there. Maybe he’s a genuine Irish u2 security leprechaun.

3247BCC5-AFE7-4697-9808-9565ED28BEEB.jpeg

I'm such a pig.  I've got at least a dozen jokes I want to type but they are mostly obscene.  I'm not sure they'd be funny to anyone else. One can hope.  I sure am laughing..  You succeeded again, Doc.

Edited by Manohlive
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Good stuff Mano! 

People take life far too seriously imo.

keep smiling be positive and if you make someone somewhere laugh then the day has been  a good one!

spread silliness not  hate!

On 21/04/2018 at 6:55 AM, Manohlive said:

I'm such a pig.  I've got at least a dozen jokes I want to type but they are mostly obscene.  I'm not sure they'd be funny to anyone else. One can hope.  I sure am laughing..  You succeeded again, Doc.

 

Edited by doctornickriviera
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And the craziness has begun.

U2start is reporting that a fan-run GA queue has started in Chicago for the May 22nd show.  They will show up for four hours every Saturday between now and the concert on May 22nd, and will expect to be in front of the line.

I'm sorry, but showing up for four hours one day a week a month ahead of time is not waiting on line.  That person should not get priority over someone who shows up the night before and is willing to wait there all night.  I know moderators do read the posts on these forums, and that there may be a line of communication between the forum moderators and the band's management.  I would humbly request that management be made aware of this silliness so it can be shut down before it gets out of hand.

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On 19/04/2018 at 10:58 PM, vertigojds said:

My edit button doesn't seem to be working this second but I just wanted to add the following:

I'll go with whatever rule system the band and venue come up with.  I'd prefer a Springsteen-type lottery, but I don't think it's a requirement.

What I think is essential is that whatever rule is posted for all to see must be the rule that is followed.

My problem with a lot of the fan-run lists is that they go against clearly posted information, and most people won't have access to info about what the fan-run line is doing.

For example, on every show I saw in 2015 and 2017 that I had GA tickets for, I received an email in advance from Ticketmaster and/or the venue, outlining what the procedure would be for GA ticket holders.  All GA ticket holders got this email - about 2000 ticket holders for the indoor shows, and about 10,000 ticket holders for the outdoor shows.  If 10,000 people get an email saying "This is the time you can show up, this is where to go, and you can't get there earlier than X", there can't be a second set of rules for a select few that completely contradict the information that everyone else has been given.  And, if you got an email from the band, the venue, or the ticket agency, or visited the venue's website, or saw information posted on Twitter from the official source, why would you continue to look for unofficial lineup rules?  You probably wouldn't.  You'd see the rules posted and just assume that those were the rules for everyone.  As they should be.

I'll go with whatever the official rule is.  But I don't want another scenario where I follow every bit of guidance offered by the band and the venue, and then am penalized for following the rules because the rulebreakers have been let in ahead of me.

Well said (and your other post too).  This seemed to be the case so often with the last tour and it was even posted on the forums here (the ones that are set up by moderators for each specific show) where the queue was being formed often the night before and where people just added their name to a list etc.   I remember getting the info for one show from ticket master saying no queuing at venue before 12pm (or something like that) yet sure enough on the forum - there was a photo of fans with numbers on their hands at 10am.  I totally agree with the fact that you get there and you wait, none of this list check in crap then bugger off home.  I would be livid if someone said they had priority over me because they wrote their name on a list the night before.  I too would kick up the biggest fuss.  There were so many complaints last time in here about it.  Bet it will be the same all over again this time.  I’d like to get a job as security at a venue and ensure the venues rules are adhered to!  

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A list has already started for Tulsa. It started yesterday at noon apparently by some "superfan" from France. I found out about it on Twitter and have been voicing my opinion about it on Facebook in the Tulsa group ever since. I am flying in from Dallas day of. I work and do not have unlimited time off from work nor do I have the funds to spend almost a week in Tulsa for 1 show. Not to mention they started the list at the venue without even discussing it with venue staff and later were kicked off the premises. Now they are bouncing around from a restaurant across the street to an actual street corner after the restaurant tells them to leave! Everyone must check in twice a day up until Wednesday. I am plan on just showing up at noon day of and getting a wrist band and following whatever rules the venue provides. I don't mind people trying to organize a group for GA but starting it 5 days in advance is a bit ridiculous. This only benefits the people that are in Tulsa right now. . 

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I go into the concerts by myself. I turn up about half an hour before the show. Then I politely shuffle passed people who have been there for ages . I always manage to get within 3 or 4 people  from the rail. Don't try this in two's or three's though.

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On 4/28/2018 at 1:56 PM, zoodog1 said:

I go into the concerts by myself. I turn up about half an hour before the show. Then I politely shuffle passed people who have been there for ages . I always manage to get within 3 or 4 people  from the rail. Don't try this in two's or three's though.

That probably works quite well, as long as you aren't interested in actually being ON the rail (which is where I hang out).  We kick people out who try to get to the rail on false pretenses.  We always know who they are.

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On 4/28/2018 at 3:56 PM, zoodog1 said:

I go into the concerts by myself. I turn up about half an hour before the show. Then I politely shuffle passed people who have been there for ages . I always manage to get within 3 or 4 people  from the rail. Don't try this in two's or three's though.

Even though you "politely" pass people who have been waiting for hours, this pretty much makes you a dick.

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Continuous fan club member since 1987. My disgust with the fan-led mismanagement of general admission lines factored into my decision NOT to buy tickets for either I&E or E&I.

As others have said, it would be more fair to follow Springsteen's example: On the day of a show randomly assign positions in the G.A. line. Everyone then organizes behind the person who is #1. This removes the incentive/need to queue for more than 24 hours for a good position and endure the manipulation of certain cliques who have self-assigned themselves "organizers" of the line.

 

 

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On 4/30/2018 at 7:12 AM, james busick said:

Even though you "politely" pass people who have been waiting for hours, this pretty much makes you a dick.

On the contrary, It pretty much makes the people who have been standing there for ages "dicks" for doing so in the first place.

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On 4/30/2018 at 1:12 AM, james busick said:

Even though you "politely" pass people who have been waiting for hours, this pretty much makes you a dick.

 

3 minutes ago, zoodog1 said:

On the contrary, It pretty much makes the people who have been standing there for ages "dicks" for doing so in the first place.

Please keep the the conversation civilized and no name calling.

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On 4/30/2018 at 3:39 AM, Rich T. said:

That probably works quite well, as long as you aren't interested in actually being ON the rail (which is where I hang out).  We kick people out who try to get to the rail on false pretenses.  We always know who they are.

I know, I wouldn't mess with anybody on the rail. Mainly because they are so strong that they can cling to it for 2-3 hours. And of course they have so much authority that they can kick people out.

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9 minutes ago, zoodog1 said:

I know, I wouldn't mess with anybody on the rail. Mainly because they are so strong that they can cling to it for 2-3 hours. And of course they have so much authority that they can kick people out.

You don't want to mess with the 90-pound women who do the enforcing.  I've seen them in action.

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I stand corrected, I have seen enough of those 90 pound women in my time to know not to mess with them, they are like banshees.

 

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Rules are rules.   By me the venues follow rules.  Every once in a while a fan can intimidate an employee of a venue.  It sounds like that is what the informal GA people are doing. The venues do not want trouble.  They especially do not want people in the GA lines fighting over who is first.  That could make them liable. I have spoken with a few venues about this. They all said that the infomal GA line would not be allowed to skip ahead of whomever obeyed the rules and was there first. People should not get screwed for obeying the rules and lining up for GA as dicated by the venue/city ordinances. It's not a matter of there's room on the GA floor for everyone this tour.  It's a matter of what is right and what is wrong.  If there is room for everyone, why is anyone needing to skip ahead of another?  It makes no sense.  I spoke with someone at my venue and was told they already know to watch for it happening..  People skipping ahead of others because they started something days before the event has no legal merit.  Established rules/city ordinances apply. Legal precedent comes into play when one group is obeying the rules/ordinances and the other is being allowed to disredgard them. They apply even if it did not happen. I'm amazed it has been permitted in the past.

Am I being a jerk for having such a stong opinion on this?  GA people in Tulsa are worried that they will obey the rules for the first show tomorrow, only to have another preordained group come in later and skip ahead of them.  That seems horribly wrong.  Am I missing something?  

Edited by Manohlive
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6 hours ago, Manohlive said:

Rules are rules.   By me the venues follow rules.  Every once in a while a fan can intimidate an employee of a venue.  It sounds like that is what the informal GA people are doing. The venues do not want trouble.  They especially do not want people in the GA lines fighting over who is first.  That could make them liable. I have spoken with a few venues about this. They all said that the infomal GA line would not be allowed to skip ahead of whomever obeyed the rules and was there first. People should not get screwed for obeying the rules and lining up for GA as dicated by the venue/city ordinances. It's not a matter of there's room on the GA floor for everyone this tour.  It's a matter of what is right and what is wrong.  If there is room for everyone, why is anyone needing to skip ahead of another?  It makes no sense.  I spoke with someone at my venue and was told they already know to watch for it happening..  People skipping ahead of others because they started something days before the event has no legal merit.  Established rules/city ordinances apply. Legal precedent comes into play when one group is obeying the rules/ordinances and the other is being allowed to disredgard them. They apply even if it did not happen. I'm amazed it has been permitted in the past.

Am I being a jerk for having such a stong opinion on this?  GA people in Tulsa are worried that they will obey the rules for the first show tomorrow, only to have another preordained group come in later and skip ahead of them.  That seems horribly wrong.  Am I missing something?  

You're not a jerk in my book Manohlive.  I've said it before and I'll say it again. A queue to me is not a book that someone records names in and then tells you to come back at certain allotted times to 'check in' in order to maintain  maintain your place in said 'queue'.  What makes it worse for me is some of the language that the self appointed holders of the book use like 'policing' the (should read their) queue.

It seems that the band/promoters/venues will not be having any part in the GA queue again on this tour and will probably give in the the 'fan queues'.

It's plain to see that this is a divisive issue and yes it is a first world problem but that's not a good enough reason for those who object the these fan organised queues to be silenced.

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just curious how you think a venue or band run GA queue would be better?  If the venue announces that the GA line will start at 6am on the day of the show at a specific location, who is stopping someone from lining up a day before? Saying the are not "allowed" to line up before that time wouldnt do much to discourage them. I was part of a very friendly Red Zone queue. I got there at 2pm, signed in. No one who came after me, skipped me. It was a great experience. Even as we filed into the stadium, everyone respected their place in line. This was in NY/NJ. Rudeness capital of the world! I guess were not so bad after all. :-) 

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7 minutes ago, nyru2 said:

just curious how you think a venue or band run GA queue would be better?  If the venue announces that the GA line will start at 6am on the day of the show at a specific location, who is stopping someone from lining up a day before? Saying the are not "allowed" to line up before that time wouldnt do much to discourage them. I was part of a very friendly Red Zone queue. I got there at 2pm, signed in. No one who came after me, skipped me. It was a great experience. Even as we filed into the stadium, everyone respected their place in line. This was in NY/NJ. Rudeness capital of the world! I guess were not so bad after all. :-) 

I am not against people queuing where this involves people going to a venue and staying there until the show.  What I am against is the fan organised lists that some self appointed list keeper starts, sometimes days in advance of a show, and then declares that those on the list have priority over those that are not.

I think the method used for Bruce Springsteen shows makes sense.

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1 hour ago, nyru2 said:

ust curious how you think a venue or band run GA queue would be better?  If the venue announces that the GA line will start at 6am on the day of the show at a specific location, who is stopping someone from lining up a day before?

The police will stop it.  They arrest people for scalping around Soldier Field in Chicago.  They will warn you once, and if they see you do it again-your ass is going to jail.  They also enforce GA lineup times.  They are quite strict about it.  The same applies for the United Center.  GA means General Admission-not a select few who feel priviledged to jump ahead and then the rest can follow them once they get what they want.

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