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Antigay Activist Blames Bird Death on DADT Repeal


Zhivvy
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interesting to hear bout that discussion, kert. but strictly taken? those people are right, many bible-verses condemn homosexuality as a sin, and somewhere in the new testament it says: "these people are disgusting in the eyes of god." (translation from the dutch lines i learned, so not sure how its paraphrased in english bibles)

so the priests and christians who say a relationship should be male-female only, just repeat what the bible says. you can argue bout the rightness of it, but you cant deny the words are there.
thats explains my ambiguity with god and religion. i would love to believe in a loving, fair god. but where do i place the bible then? and without the bible, whats left from the story bout god, jesus,...
its a dilemma.
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yes I see what you mean barbara and I'm having the same dilemma... I think it's very hard to believe in anything 'cause the bible and church as an institution are partly representing pretty different values what are important to me.

In Finland some of the bishops and priests accepts homosaxuality and homosexuals and could even bless them to marriage ... but most of the priests still read the bible very strickt. And it has been quite a big dilemma what's church's "official view".

But while listening to these conversations about sin or "god's punishment with natural disasters" etc... i just can't believe people are still thinking that way on 21st century!!!

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This Cindy woman, what kind of authority has she to say that in the name of God ?

 

I can say, in the same way: "Fireworks are not natural....then,....they are a sin...specially because they do such harm"

 

Still, you know me, I don't buy the "fireworks" explanation....but it is for another topic

 

 

Hi to all of you

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I guess that this is a subject which can go on and on and on - and involves peoples' views of religion and of the bible - although i think that we are all pretty much agreed that this woman is loopy saying these things and we all seemed to have the same reaction as I did of being totally speechless.

Barbara i so agree with what you say about the bible and god and how one can't be without the other. And yes there is a lot of ambiguity in this matter. But the bible itself is full of ambiguity - an eye for an eye it says and yet then says turn the other cheek. It is so confusing and I am not in any position to try and justify any of this.

I have a strange faith. I do believe in God and Jesus and I would like to believe that live my life as a good 'christian' in the view that I will treat all people with repsect, I will try and not judge. I will do my best to help others etc... I have read the bible - not cover to cover as I have with novels and not read in detail for a long time. Some parts of the bible I love so much and agree with what is written etc.... and maybe it is the English teacher in me but I see the bible as something which shouldn't be read and taken word for word but it is like poetry and we all have our own interpretations of poetry.

Any type of fundamentalism from all relgions worries me - as God should be seen as love and tolerance not hatred and death in all paths of life.

And as for this woman - she shouts off that gays are evil etc.... and kill birds apparently! How can she be so narrow minded and judgemental - I am sure that we have all done things in our lives which we know can be seen as 'wrong' I know that I have done many things in my life on which I could be judged by women like this for. But as it says in the bible too: 'So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.' and I bet that this woman has done things which the bible can see as being wrong too at some part in her life.

But I have waffled on now - I hope that you all understand what i am trying to say

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I don't know if I can explain this properly, but the church that I belong to also believes that homosexuality is a sin as it is in the Bible as Barbara pointed out, however our pastor does not preach against it in particular. He is a very down to earth person and an engaging speaker and I could never do justice to his sermons, but what he does is show how each of us is sinful and that because of our sin in order to reach God, mankind needs Jesus as the link, does that make sense? If you think of the Old Testament as God's law that each of us breaks daily and the New Testament where God provides Jesus as His link to reach out to us . . . anyway, that made sense to me and maybe it will to others, lol. Now our pastor does point out that it is our Christian duty to love each other whether we are prideful, stubborn, losing our tempers, gay, adulturous (yes, wanting Bono probably qualifies, lol) etc, etc, etc. One sin is not worse than another and God loves us even though we sin constantly - He loves us no matter what our sin. In God's eyes someone who is homosexual is no more or no less a sinner than a man who cheats on his wife or someone who brags about his accomplishments or someone who lied to their parents, or someone who loses their temper, etc. Our church wouldn't turn anyone away and preaches love ALL your neighbors and they certainly wouldn't blame bird deaths on gays!!!

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I think as humans we are equal... (we have some differences about appeareance, personality, way of thinking, way of eating, beliefs, etc), but, we are equal no matter how...it's obvious....then, who I am to judge a person who feels to love another person of the same sex, or feels it's right to have six wives and those wives seem to be very happy beside him,...etc.

 

Zhiv...and Jan...I think I understand what you want to say.

 

Me, non Christian person, think/feel that life is an experiment. We come here to experience the material form, the LIFE, every human being, who could be gay, wife, son, sister, monk, stupid, retaired, inteligent, talented, good, bad, pervert, father, mother, happy, unhappy, etc.

 

It's really curious, but we are having this conversation with my husband at the moment, we discussed it the other day, and we discussed it today again because of a friend of ours who is quite obsess with his kind of GURU physicologyst. Who is happier? the person who is freer and then doubts about everything, or the person who follows a certain belief in something or someone and doesn't think or solve problems by itself without the man/thing in question guidence ? We actually disagree the answer.

 

The answer for me is that: freedom, is almost equal to happiness, I feel with no freedom you can't be happy, whatever you chose at the end.

 

This Cindy woman stupid speech, actually is a very good thing, because it makes us think. Do you think like her, or not. OK, I'm not sure. Then I go to the Bible looking for an answer, but the curious thing is that the Bible has a contradiction apparently about the topic, so, then, what ? ....The conclusion is I can thing by myself, I have the tools luckly to think by myself....I use that tools....then I conclude:....

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Well there s one thing for certain - this woman has got us talking for sure lol!

I will write more as I am enjoying reading people's views beliefs etc..... but too early in the morning for it right now

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"but I see the bible as something which shouldn't be read and taken word for word but it is like poetry and we all have our owninterpretations of poetry. "  (from Zhivvy)

I agree with this SO much Zhivvy....  I've always thought the bible is more allegorical than literal...  (I'm not certain those are quite the right words) .  

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I don't know if I can explain this properly, but the church that I belong to also believes that homosexuality is a sin as it is in the Bible as Barbara pointed out, however our pastor does not preach against it in particular. He is a very down to earth person and an engaging speaker and I could never do justice to his sermons, but what he does is show how each of us is sinful and that because of our sin in order to reach God, mankind needs Jesus as the link, does that make sense? If you think of the Old Testament as God's law that each of us breaks daily and the New Testament where God provides Jesus as His link to reach out to us . . . anyway, that made sense to me and maybe it will to others, lol. Now our pastor does point out that it is our Christian duty to love each other whether we are prideful, stubborn, losing our tempers, gay, adulturous (yes, wanting Bono probably qualifies, lol) etc, etc, etc. One sin is not worse than another and God loves us even though we sin constantly - He loves us no matter what our sin. In God's eyes someone who is homosexual is no more or no less a sinner than a man who cheats on his wife or someone who brags about his accomplishments or someone who lied to their parents, or someone who loses their temper, etc. Our church wouldn't turn anyone away and preaches love ALL your neighbors and they certainly wouldn't blame bird deaths on gays!!!
I think this is a lovely explanation , and your church sounds kind hearted and much closer to a definition of "Christian" that makes sense to me.  I don't think I've heard it explained quite like this, that all sins are equal essentially.  Which brings us right to the quote about "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." (Which this Cindy person would do well to remember!) 
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Some good points made there Nikki - and so happy that you have the same views of the bible is there for our own interpretations. And yes you did use the right words lol!

And Janette's church does sound lovely - full of love which is what it should all be about.

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