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Antigay Activist Blames Bird Death on DADT Repeal


Zhivvy
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love the conversation so far, even if i don agree with all thats been said. and the way you found believe in your church, i'm really happy for you janette. for myself, i said it before in one of mummy his discussions about religion, i'm lost for life, lol. somehow this religion i partly 'grew up with' spoiled it for me. cause i cant read or hear bout the bible without seeing their view bout it all. and altho it once was the 'whole truth and nothing but' for me, i cant relate to it now. if you would just take jesus and the gospel i would be happy to believe. but i cant help seeing god, looking down from the sky, pointing his finger at me, and say: "who are you?? to just pick out what YOU want to believe, and ignore the rest of my words?"

i would love to have your view on it, nikki and zhiv. that the bible shouldnt be taken literally, but i was told to often that it should. that its gods letter to us, and full of prophecies and we should take every word of it in our heart.
well, too many of those words just make me shiver. and there for i have no other option then put the whole book beside me. and try to live by my own standards. and if one day gods judgement will come, and he finds me unworthy... then too bad for me.
sorry for goin on bout me.
back to this cindy, eitherway, bible or not, homosexuality being a sin or not. like you said above; who is she to convict others? she's only human, and no human should have the power to judge others. cause like you said, she cant be without a sin herself. jealousy, anger, rage, ..... 
for me a sin is when you harm others, so pedophilia is a sin, adultery is a sin, abuse is a sin. but two people who decide to love eachother and have sex, and both enjoy it, without taking away from someone else (like a spouse); not a sin. no matter what gender they are.
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I’ve pretty much lost my faith with church as an institution – doesn’t mean i couldn’t believe in God. I’m just pretty tired of all the conservativity and discrimination what i still see too much in church – even if some progress has happened during last year (maybe only because of the pressure from outside...?). Somehow I see the church  and God as a two different thing – at least “my†God doesn’t despise or discariminate anyone.

 

Sorry the ramblingsmile.gif

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I am a 51 year old gay, living together with my partner for 31 years now in the Netherlands. It was hell coming out at 16 for me in the 70ies; what I find disturbing and scary is that 30 years later appearantly there is nothing changed! At the moment there is a tv show in NL called ' uit de kast' (yes, "out of the closet' ) it's ofcourse about young gays that asked the help from the celeb tv host to be present at their Coming Out with family, friends , work etc. so there would be no way back with their coming out.  It is so hard and even painful  to watch the struggle that those young teens are having! What are 'we' doing to them?? The whole world has changed in 30 years but not on this matter! Isn't that a bit odd?? The program even stopped after six episodes because- according to the  makers- they had misjudged the difficulty of the matter, it was ment to be a joyful show but turned out the opposite..

 

If you ask me it is all about a lack of information. I'm sure even Cindy Jacobs had gay family members and friends because gays don't come with one out of 10 million but with one out of 10.... So she is hurting even her family members and friends.. Because there are so many gays it is one big mystery to me why it is still so difficult for teens to come out in 2011. Cars exist, trees exist, IPads exist, and , o dear, gays exist. Maybe it is time for parents to take responseability and learn their children beside the basic writing and maths that gays exist. (and that there is the possibility that later the child can be one)

If everyone would have that basic information put in their heads the world would be a much better place for millions of people if you ask me.

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I’ve pretty much lost my faith with church as an institution – doesn’t mean i couldn’t believe in God. I’m just pretty tired of all the conservativity and discrimination what i still see too much in church – even if some progress has happened during last year (maybe only because of the pressure from outside...?). Somehow I see the church  and God as a two different thing – at least “my†God doesn’t despise or discariminate anyone.

 

Sorry the ramblingsmile.gif

clap.gif

 

 

I am a 51 year old gay, living together with my partner for 31 years now in the Netherlands. It was hell coming out at 16 for me in the 70ies; what I find disturbing and scary is that 30 years later appearantly there is nothing changed! At the moment there is a tv show in NL called ' uit de kast' (yes, "out of the closet' ) it's ofcourse about young gays that asked the help from the celeb tv host to be present at their Coming Out with family, friends , work etc. so there would be no way back with their coming out.  It is so hard and even painful  to watch the struggle that those young teens are having! What are 'we' doing to them?? The whole world has changed in 30 years but not on this matter! Isn't that a bit odd?? The program even stopped after six episodes because- according to the  makers- they had misjudged the difficulty of the matter, it was ment to be a joyful show but turned out the opposite..

 

If you ask me it is all about a lack of information. I'm sure even Cindy Jacobs had gay family members and friends because gays don't come with one out of 10 million but with one out of 10.... So she is hurting even her family members and friends.. Because there are so many gays it is one big mystery to me why it is still so difficult for teens to come out in 2011. Cars exist, trees exist, IPads exist, and , o dear, gays exist. Maybe it is time for parents to take responseability and learn their children beside the basic writing and maths that gays exist. (and that there is the possibility that later the child can be one)

If everyone would have that basic information put in their heads the world would be a much better place for millions of people if you ask me.

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love your post cnf, and as a mom, i often mention to my kids: i don care who you bring to this house, who you fall in love with as long as you are happy with it. but my daughter was in tears at the age of 11 (!) cause she had a crush on a girlfriend (she told me she felt itching in her belly when the girl spoke or smile at her, lol) and she was so afraid cause her grandparents on fathers side would surely hate her and never speak to her again if she turned out to be gay. 

and you know what? she's probably right and i couldnt reassure her bout this. could only point out how i and my parents would never stop loving and supporting her.
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love the conversation so far, even if i don agree with all thats been said. and the way you found believe in your church, i'm really happy for you janette. for myself, i said it before in one of mummy his discussions about religion, i'm lost for life, lol. somehow this religion i partly 'grew up with' spoiled it for me. cause i cant read or hear bout the bible without seeing their view bout it all. and altho it once was the 'whole truth and nothing but' for me, i cant relate to it now. if you would just take jesus and the gospel i would be happy to believe. but i cant help seeing god, looking down from the sky, pointing his finger at me, and say: "who are you?? to just pick out what YOU want to believe, and ignore the rest of my words?"
i would love to have your view on it, nikki and zhiv. that the bible shouldnt be taken literally, but i was told to often that it should. that its gods letter to us, and full of prophecies and we should take every word of it in our heart.
well, too many of those words just make me shiver. and there for i have no other option then put the whole book beside me. and try to live by my own standards. and if one day gods judgement will come, and he finds me unworthy... then too bad for me.
sorry for goin on bout me.
back to this cindy, eitherway, bible or not, homosexuality being a sin or not. like you said above; who is she to convict others? she's only human, and no human should have the power to judge others. cause like you said, she cant be without a sin herself. jealousy, anger, rage, ..... 
for me a sin is when you harm others, so pedophilia is a sin, adultery is a sin, abuse is a sin. but two people who decide to love eachother and have sex, and both enjoy it, without taking away from someone else (like a spouse); not a sin. no matter what gender they are.
I like this speech very much Barb !
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Thanks for joining us CNF.... it does seem like an area in which we, as a little planet of people, can't make any headway ...  sometimes it seems like we might be, then something happens to show us we haven't...

I'm lovomg this discussion tho, and reading everyones' views and how different they are, and yet how very much the same they are in that we all agree that respecting individuals and their choices, and accepting people as they are is the bottom line.
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I think as humans we are equal... (we have some differences about appeareance, personality, way of thinking, way of eating, beliefs, etc), but, we are equal no matter how...it's obvious....then, who I am to judge a person who feels to love another person of the same sex, or feels it's right to have six wives and those wives seem to be very happy beside him,...etc.

 

Zhiv...and Jan...I think I understand what you want to say.

 

Me, non Christian person, think/feel that life is an experiment. We come here to experience the material form, the LIFE, every human being, who could be gay, wife, son, sister, monk, stupid, retaired, inteligent, talented, good, bad, pervert, father, mother, happy, unhappy, etc.

 

It's really curious, but we are having this conversation with my husband at the moment, we discussed it the other day, and we discussed it today again because of a friend of ours who is quite obsess with his kind of GURU physicologyst. Who is happier? the person who is freer and then doubts about everything, or the person who follows a certain belief in something or someone and doesn't think or solve problems by itself without the man/thing in question guidence ? We actually disagree the answer.

 

The answer for me is that: freedom, is almost equal to happiness, I feel with no freedom you can't be happy, whatever you chose at the end.

 

This Cindy woman stupid speech, actually is a very good thing, because it makes us think. Do you think like her, or not. OK, I'm not sure. Then I go to the Bible looking for an answer, but the curious thing is that the Bible has a contradiction apparently about the topic, so, then, what ? ....The conclusion is I can thing by myself, I have the tools luckly to think by myself....I use that tools....then I conclude:....

I had to come back and read this again today Nazhira...  I think you say so much in these few paragraphs...  and I really think if most people took to heart this idea of freedom to think and decide for themselves, we'd all be better off.  It gets us into a lot of trouble that so many rely on their "spiritual adviser" or "holy book" for answers on how to live and what to believe.    
My mom used to say "God gave us the brains to think and decide for ourselves...."  which is why we were not a church going family..  it always felt that the church wanted to take that independence of thought away.  

And without that independence of thought, there is less sense of individual responsibility....  people can do evil things in the name of their church / religion.. and they think this makes it  OK......  I think that's how Cindy Jacobs justifies her self

.

 

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