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Antigay Activist Blames Bird Death on DADT Repeal


Zhivvy
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I am a 51 year old gay, living together with my partner for 31 years now in the Netherlands. It was hell coming out at 16 for me in the 70ies; what I find disturbing and scary is that 30 years later appearantly there is nothing changed! At the moment there is a tv show in NL called ' uit de kast' (yes, "out of the closet' ) it's ofcourse about young gays that asked the help from the celeb tv host to be present at their Coming Out with family, friends , work etc. so there would be no way back with their coming out.  It is so hard and even painful  to watch the struggle that those young teens are having! What are 'we' doing to them?? The whole world has changed in 30 years but not on this matter! Isn't that a bit odd?? The program even stopped after six episodes because- according to the  makers- they had misjudged the difficulty of the matter, it was ment to be a joyful show but turned out the opposite..

 

If you ask me it is all about a lack of information. I'm sure even Cindy Jacobs had gay family members and friends because gays don't come with one out of 10 million but with one out of 10.... So she is hurting even her family members and friends.. Because there are so many gays it is one big mystery to me why it is still so difficult for teens to come out in 2011. Cars exist, trees exist, IPads exist, and , o dear, gays exist. Maybe it is time for parents to take responseability and learn their children beside the basic writing and maths that gays exist. (and that there is the possibility that later the child can be one)

If everyone would have that basic information put in their heads the world would be a much better place for millions of people if you ask me.

Hi CNF - welcome!!! And thanks for your post. I love your comment about the cars, ipads and gays exisiting - so true!!!

But the one thing I loved whilst reading this is the fact that you have found your partner for life and have been with them for so long. And this is the most important thing to me - finding a person who makes you happy, who loves you and you love them back - no matter of their gender, race etc....

And as you say Barbara - no matter what sexuality my daughter is all I want is for her to be happy, loved and with someone who respects her and treats her well.

 

And the same as others have said - I am really enjoying this discussion. I am glad I posted the article originally as it has shown that even though we all have different views on religion and our beliefs etc... but we all come together on certain things - such as this woman is stupid lol! I like the views we all have on the bible, whether it should be taken literally, or if is letters from God etc.... but one thing seems to be clear. That although none of us here are perfect (although we aren't far off happy.gif) but we all seem to live our lives in the best way that we can and not to live selfishly. And it is seeing all these people on here who love and repsect people for who they are makes me so happy that you are my friends!!

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I too am enjoying this discussion and I think it is wonderful that we can all share and explore our outlooks and find commonality amongst ourselves, ie: loving, kind, rational, thinking, respectful, the list goes on and on!

 

I used to see God kind of like you do, Barbara, stern and pointing down at me because I could never be good enough, but now I see him more as a kindly old father scratching his head and rolling his eyes in amazement at his creation doing and thinking some crazy things, lol. I grew up being taught that the way to salvation lay in doing good works and in improving myself, but of course, I could never measure up, kept messing up like we all do, and kind of threw my hands in the air and said, "I give up". In my new way of thinking I see God as offering up salvation for free no matter what our shortcomings and not as something earned. I think the scary Old Testament prophets were there to demonstrate that we humans could never be perfect and to demonstrate need, otherwise there would be absolutely no need for Jesus whatsoever if the human race could perfect itself.

 

Nikki, I think you are so right to warn against blind obedience to any particular institution or leader and it is sick to hide behind dogma to give yourself permission to carry out evil and spread hatred yet it does happen all the time and that does sound like what this Cindy is doing too. I am sooooo blessed to have found a church that fosters discussion/arumentation and eschews blind stepford wife type obedience. I think if a church or a church leader is close-minded and hateful of an individual or their sins, then that should be avoided. It is their job to bring people closer to understanding God, not to turn God into some far off, unreachable idea.

 

CNF, it is so nice to meet you and I am happy for you having found a life partner and love - it must be soooo hard to live without that, yet so many do. I have several gay friends in our church and elsewhere and knowing their life stories and struggles for acceptance makes me happy that you and others can find their way in this world. 

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"but I see the bible as something which shouldn't be read and taken word for word but it is like poetry and we all have our owninterpretations of poetry. "  (from Zhivvy)

I agree with this SO much Zhivvy....  I've always thought the bible is more allegorical than literal...  (I'm not certain those are quite the right words) .  

 

exactly the way i feel about the bible....written by many different people to try and teach lessons of morality. I certainly don't think the birds deaths were caused by fireworks, though.

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this is a story i like to tell peopelabout religion. Our family has a tradition of visiting St. Patrick's cathedral in Manhattan around christmastime, if possible. Not to go to mass, but just to look around at the beauty inside ( though I do have a problem with all the money that has been spent by the catholic church to build these ornate palaces). One time though, we happened to visit towards the end of a mass. So we stayed for it....and decided to participate in the communion they were having. Not having participated in this too much in the past, and esp not in a catholic church...when it was my turn...i apparently did something 'wrong', like not taking the body or blood or body of jesus with the proper hand or the proper words or actions...i don't remember specifically what it was. But the priest knew immediately i was not a catholic...and as i walked away with the cracker...he grabbed my arm and told me I couldn't have it!!!

Well, nobody is going to tell me i can't believe in Jesus and receive his gift. So I pulled my arm roughly from his gasp...got right in his face , put it in my mouth, and said...thank you Jesus! He wasn't too happy...but at least he didn't call security.

i think we would all be so much better off if we gathered together as humans, held hands, and thanked the creator of the universe for giving us such an opportunity to experience each other and the world around us......Encourage each other, help each other....and strive to do more good than bad......

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i think we would all be so much better off if we gathered together as humans, held hands, and thanked the creator of the universe for giving us such an opportunity to experience each other and the world around us......Encourage each other, help each other....and strive to do more good than bad......
This is what my view of what religion should be like Peter. Doing good and respecting each other.

 

BTW - i like what you did in the church - good on you!

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Good for you, Peter! I don't know all the "rules" of being Catholic, but I do know that there are MANY! In my church, the pastor invites everyone who believes in Jesus and his sacrifice to participate in communion, he calls it a meal for believers. Inclusive vs. exclusive.

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[quote name='CNF wrote:


kerttuli']

 
I’ve pretty much lost my faith with church as an institution – doesn’t mean i couldn’t believe in God. I’m just pretty tired of all the conservativity and discrimination what i still see too much in church – even if some progress has happened during last year (maybe only because of the pressure from outside...?). Somehow I see the church
 
and God as a two different thing – at least “my†God doesn’t despise or discariminate anyone.

 

Sorry the rambling
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I am a 51 year old gay, living together with my partner for 31 years now in the Netherlands. It was hell coming out at 16 for me in the 70ies; what I find disturbing and scary is that 30 years later appearantly there is nothing changed! At the moment there is a tv show in NL called ' uit de kast' (yes, "out of the closet' ) it's ofcourse about young gays that asked the help from the celeb tv host to be present at their Coming Out with family, friends , work etc. so there would be no way back with their coming out.  It is so hard and even painful  to watch the struggle that those young teens are having! What are 'we' doing to them?? The whole world has changed in 30 years but not on this matter! Isn't that a bit odd?? The program even stopped after six episodes because- according to the  makers- they had misjudged the difficulty of the matter, it was ment to be a joyful show but turned out the opposite..

 

If you ask me it is all about a lack of information. I'm sure even Cindy Jacobs had gay family members and friends because gays don't come with one out of 10 million but with one out of 10.... So she is hurting even her family members and friends.. Because there are so many gays it is one big mystery to me why it is still so difficult for teens to come out in 2011. Cars exist, trees exist, IPads exist, and , o dear, gays exist. Maybe it is time for parents to take responseability and learn their children beside the basic writing and maths that gays exist. (and that there is the possibility that later the child can be one)

If everyone would have that basic information put in their heads the world would be a much better place for millions of people if you ask me.

I honestly don't think this has anything to do with the church, it's just people putting God's "word" as an excuse.

There will always be people with prejudices of this kind and there will always be teens afraid of coming out because of this, because those people could be their parents, not everyone thinks the same, and I do think that this world has changed in this matter, because if not, DADT would have never been repealed in the first place.

Don't lose hope, it might have taken a long time, but people are starting to see that hatred, and racism of any kind just don't fit this day and age anymore.
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