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U2 and faith - where do they stand?


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Guest ONE01

Over the years U2 have given out some rather mixed signals regarding the faith that's there for all to see in their early albums.

 

I'm curious, anyone have any theories about where they stand and what they really believe?

 

I'm a bit worried Bono spends too much time with "important" people and hope their masonic influence isn't too strong for him.

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Thanks for the question

 

Here's another angle.

 

There are only two sources for everything on planet earth; God and Satan. Sounds simplistic, but essentially, life is simple. Satan causes the confusion, asGod promised he would, when we ate the apple in the Garden of Eden. We were promised that we would die and we have been dying in millions ever since.

 

Each one of us receives both the Go(o)d voice and the (d)evil voice, every minute of our lives. It's up to us to choose. So Bono gets his fair share ofgood voice, as in his lyrics, and then Satan, turns it (tries to) to his advantage, as he does with everything from God. Bono likes the glory, for now...andthat is Satan having his way with him.

 

But fortunately God writes in code, so that even Satan gets bamboozled at least blocked by his followers (us) inability to deficer what we are receiving; forlater enlightenment!!! Take note how much of the Bible is written in code eg the big one with the faith of a mustard seed you can say to this mountain(government) be thrown into the sea (people).

REVELATIONS

17:15 And he saith unto me, The "waters" which thou sawest, where the"Whore" sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

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Hands, heads and hearts up to spirituality!

 

But I must admit that religious zealotry skeeves me completely; I don't care what faith it is attached to. And I apologize for using such a slang word --"skeeve," -- but it sounds exactly like fanatical dynamics make me feel. (that is onomatopoeia, right?) As does the persepctive that life is simple.It is simple only to simple minds.

 

I am sorry; I don't want to offend, and I am sure this is offensive. But it is virtually impossible to say anything that would not offend on thisissue--unless one simply agrees. Which I do not.

To each his own! But defend your thought-perimeter at all costs!

 

As far as what Bono and the guys believe...I have absolutely no idea, for certain. But sometimes I suspect that interpretations of their work are far morefanatical than what is actually being expressed. The biggest clue for me lies in the music, which sounds reasonable...although complex, hopeful, it juxtaposeslight with dark and ultimately (usually) emerges into the light.

 

I certainly do not feel that "Satan" has a grip on the singer...but then, I would never think in such terms anyway. And even if "Satan"does, there is hardly a thing I can do about that, not being an administer of Bono's soul.

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And, actually, does it matter what they personally believe? It seems to me the only thing that matters--unless you are a part of their personal lives--is whatbeliefs you come to through their music. Or? I assume they are leaving people's spirtuality up to the individual and not trying to impose theirs--I amassuming (hoping)-- So, it does not really bring me to anything to wonder about what they personally believe. There is no way to know for certain, so whyconcern yourself with it?

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As far as we know Adam is the only person in the band who is not deeply religous.

Let's not forget that Bono made a point of saying that all three major religons were one in the same.

I've always thought they had a very individual view of god. I doubt they subscribe to any one faith.

Good thread ONE01,bound to stir up some S%^T

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Especially with this album....people say there are loads of biblical references in it, but I am only catching a few, since I do not know the ins and outs ofbible mythology....but I feel like this album sounds like one of the LEAST religious albums they have made. At the same time, it sounds very broad and open andall-encompassing in its spirit. I like it so much! Even if it is also sounds to me very very sad in spots.

 

 

But then, we all hear differently, and filter the songs through our own frames of reference, and there is no way to know if we are hearing what they intend.Again, I am not sure the most important thing is to know what they personally believe. More importantly is knowing what we believe, and most importantly...WHYwe believe as we do. Just my un-asked for 37 cents :D

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Here are some excerpts of Bono speaking about his faith in 2005 taken from the book "Bono on Bono" by Assayas:

 

The following exchange between Bono and Assayas took place just days after the Madrid train bombings in March 2004, an act of terrorism that left 191 dead andmore than 1,800 wounded. The two men were discussing how terrorism is often carried out in the name of religion when Bono turned the conversation toChristianity, expressing his preference for God's grace over "karma," offering an articulate apologetic for the deity of Christ, and giving aclear presentation of the gospel message.

 

Bono: My understanding of the Scriptures has been made simple by the person of Christ. Christ teaches that God is love. What does that mean? What it means forme: a study of the life of Christ. Love here describes itself as a child born in straw poverty, the most vulnerable situation of all, without honor. Idon't let my religious world get too complicated. I just kind of go: Well, I think I know what God is. God is love, and as much as I respond [sighs] inallowing myself to be transformed by that love and acting in that love, that's my religion. Where things get complicated for me, is when I try to live thislove. Now that's not so easy.

 

Assayas: What about the God of the Old Testament? He wasn't so "peace and love"?

 

Bono: There's nothing hippie about my picture of Christ. The Gospels paint a picture of a very demanding, sometimes divisive love, but love it is. I acceptthe Old Testament as more of an action movie: blood, car chases, evacuations, a lot of special effects, seas dividing, mass murder, adultery. The children ofGod are running amok, wayward. Maybe that's why they're so relatable. But the way we would see it, those of us who are trying to figure out ourChristian conundrum, is that the God of the Old Testament is like the journey from stern father to friend. When you're a child, you need clear directionsand some strict rules. But with Christ, we have access in a one-to-one relationship, for, as in the Old Testament, it was more one of worship and awe, avertical relationship. The New Testament, on the other hand, we look across at a Jesus who looks familiar, horizontal. The combination is what makes the Cross.

 

Later in the conversation:

 

Assayas: I think I am beginning to understand religion because I have started acting and thinking like a father. What do you make of that? Bono: Yes, I thinkthat's normal. It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but thething that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma.

 

Assayas: I haven't heard you talk about that.

 

Bono: I really believe we've moved out of the realm of Karma into one of Grace.

 

Assayas: Well, that doesn't make it clearer for me.

 

Bono: You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or inphysics-in physical laws-every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'mabsolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason andlogic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff.

 

Assayas: I'd be interested to hear that.

 

Bono: That's between me and God. But I'd be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge. I'd be in deep s---. It doesn't excuse mymistakes, but I'm holding out for Grace. I'm holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don't haveto depend on my own religiosity.

 

Assayas: The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.

 

Bono: But I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. I love the idea that God says: Look, you cretins, there are certain results to the way we are, toselfishness, and there's a mortality as part of your very sinful nature, and, let's face it, you're not living a very good life, are you? There areconsequences to actions. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, andthat our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That's the point. It should keep us humbled… . It's not our own good works that get us throughthe gates of heaven.

 

Assayas: That's a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it's close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has his rank among theworld's great thinkers. But Son of God, isn't that farfetched?

 

Bono: No, it's not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a veryinteresting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn'tallow you that. He doesn't let you off that hook. Christ says: No. I'm not saying I'm a teacher, don't call me teacher. I'm not sayingI'm a prophet. I'm saying: "I'm the Messiah." I'm saying: "I am God incarnate." And people say: No, no, please, just be aprophet. A prophet, we can take. You're a bit eccentric. We've had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don'tmention the "M" word! Because, you know, we're gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know you're expecting me to come back withan army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah. At this point, everyone starts staring at their shoes, and says: Oh, my God,he's gonna keep saying this. So what you're left with is: either Christ was who He said He was-the Messiah-or a complete nutcase. I mean, we'retalking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson. This man was like some of the people we've been talking about earlier. This man was strapping himself to abomb, and had "King of the Jews" on his head, and, as they were putting him up on the Cross, was going: OK, martyrdom, here we go. Bring on the pain!I can take it. I'm not joking here. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turnedupside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched …

 

Bono later says it all comes down to how we regard Jesus:

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It is a very beautiful and well-formulated faith system [bono's as he decribes it]. I respect it. I do not personally find room inside "Bono'schurch" for my spritual life, but I do find space for it in the music, which strikes me as even larger than what is described above. Maybe it is all ofthe extra dimension that is brought to the songs once they emerge and become a part of the consciousness of millions of other individuals. A few days ago, wewere speaking of music as a living organism...breathing, thinking and evolving, and this is a rendering that I personally appreciate very much. To eachone's own. :)

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I think I am not really embracing of this idea though: "The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we putout did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That's the point. It should keep us humbled… . It's not ourown good works that get us through the gates of heaven. "

 

Why should we not have to take full responsiblity for our actions "getting us through the gates of heaven?" I guess I am much more rooted in theconcept of personal responsibility...individual responsibility...and the belief that people are, in fact, capable of spiritual perfection in their own right,although that is not easy to attain, surely. But to aspire to less seems a cop-out or a lesser settling, to my mind.

 

I also do not accept the premise that we are sinful by nature...this is a very Catholic concept. And a very oppressive one, and the minute one accepts that,one has only the choice to be "damned" OR to submit one's spirit to someone or something else. I do not believe in spiritual heirarchy (and Ithink he said he does not either), and since he speaks of a leveling of spirit in the form of Jesus....there are concepts here that are not reconciled. Whichis fine :)

 

I also think I prefer the concept of one universal spirit to which each is personally responsible for upholding his/her end of things for the sake of thelarger, collective spirit.--which includes everything, not just humans.

Haha...sorry...you were asking about Bono's spirit world, and I just worked out mine in relation to his in public, lol! Sorry.

 

It seems that Bono and I do not have much in common on the theological front.

 

Still love the music!!!!

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