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Is U2 Pro-Evolution?


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And I cannot stand a lack of courage so profound, one must assume for oneself some sort of monopoly onspiritual value just in order to be able to face the world. Surely religions should arm its flock with better and more compassionate tools than these! Butmaybe fear is the only true motivator for some. Would be miserable to live in fear--even if it gets suppressed under all sorts of camouflage--it is stillthere, in the blood, in the spirit. A fearful spirit. Blech.

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And, I wonder if it is even possible to rise above fear, if one lives in it, to grow beyond it? I wonder if it is even possible??? One would like to hope so.What a waste to spend one's life in fear and the narrow vision it dictates. But, then, I guess one can't miss what one does not know about. Maybe"ignorance" really is bliss.

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Let me see if I understend what is theory: Theory is the result of hard work, research, tests, simulations that can last years and cost millions, made byscientists who are people with an above average intelligence. And when you get a result it can be defeasibly. Until here I agree. No Problems. But in the caseof theory of evolution, all this work is to see if our ancestors were apes or not. Sorry but seems more a plot of a movie from Ace Ventura. I think that time,money and intelligence should be spent doing something more useful.

 

For me the theory of evolution, is like that guy who wins a legacy of one billion dollars and spent it all trying to prove he is not the heir, or likeCristiano Ronaldo sad for play in the Manchester United and not in the West Bromwich.

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zootrabant wrote:

But in the case of theory of evolution, all this work is to see if our ancestors were apes or not.

That's all the theory evolution explains? Wow, you're right... it's really a trivial matter. I wonder why anyone bothers with it? Why arescientists so up in arms about it? Come to think of it. Why are religious fundamentalists so upset about it? It's not like the theory of evolution informs:

 

1. Farming

2. Medicine

3. Zoology

and

4. Anthropology

 

It's not like the theory of evolutions has HELPED us in any tangible way. Or has even helped us to understand the world better. It really should be called"The Ape to Man" theory. It would be less confusing for all of us. Especially for you.

 

Edit to add: My post above is obviously sarcastic.

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Knowledge for Knowledge's sake is inherently valuable. And to the extent that knowledge can serve to break strangle-holds of ignorance and the paralysis offear unfortunately engendered by mystery, it is absolutely vital.

 

To not use the mind given to one...well, one might as well be inert, inanimate matter. To deny others the ability to use their minds is simply...wicked. Todeny humanity the fruits of those intellectual efforts is a degree of stupidty worthy of the title "evil."

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LifeFactory wrote:

And careful, Soda...I fear some readers may miss that you are being sardonic.

 

You're right. I added a clarification just in case.

 

Some of the ignorance on display here is breathtaking. Yes, that means you, Zootrabant.

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LifeFactory wrote:

I find it absolutely horrible that there are some people who are so arrogant as to presume that humans are the only life forms with "spirit." How ugly, how cruel, how blind, and how tragic for every other life form. To proscribe a universe that is spiritually dead and unintelligent with the exception of human company--how awful, how terrible, how unethical, how devoid of magic and beauty--how barren.

 

And how overly complimentary to one's own species!

 

Well said. Funny that the believers think we non-believers are the ones with a narrow-minded, fatalistic world view. As to the ignorance currently beingdisplayed in this thread--what makes it worse is that it is WILLFUL ignorance. One has only to open one's mind to varying forms of information to becomewell-informed.

 

As Descartes said, "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, allthings." For those who have never once read a book that departs from your insulated religious world-view--how can you know your truth is correct withoutsincerely looking at all sides of the issue?

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Tracy M wrote:


First, I have to say that I am really sick and tired of the people on this site who seem to think that people who have faith and believe in a Christian world view are STUPID. Trust me -- many of us are very well-educated and have taken the time to think things through as opposed to simply having doctrine shovelled down our throats. I actually became a Christian as a result of that type of study and reflection.

 

Second, when I responded to the original question, I assumed the questioner was referring directly to the theory that man is descended from apes.

and with that "descended from apes", say goodbye to the so-called study... =|

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eaplatt wrote:

Tracy M wrote:

As far as my stand on genetic engineering of the human body, well, it's really the same a my stand on abortion, and of course there are many who would disagree with me on that as well. For believers, these compelling societal questions have to be viewed in Biblical context, and that is that God is the giver and taker of life - so therefore, genetic mutation, cloning, abortion and assisted suicide are all contrary to God's laws. At the same time, I do not believe that HIV/AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuals (now that's fanatical!) If that were the case, then AIDS would be confined to that community - but it is not. There is a reason for it, but we may not fully know or understand that reason until Jesus returns. I do think that to some degree, this scourage is to be the catalyst to bring the churches together and get rid of the stupid divisions between them so that people learn tolerance and how to work together.

 

Hmmm, well, that does pose an interesting theological question--because I'm old enough to recall when it was indeed the common opinion amongst fundamentalist Christians that AIDS was "God's punishment" against homosexuals. I've lived in San Francisco since 1980, so have seen the history of the what we now know as HIV/AIDS unfold since the very beginning, when the local papers first reported on number of baffling "gay cancer" cases that kept turning up at local hospitals. The "God's wrath/punishment" opinion was treated as absolute dogma by most fundamentalists, who were also (not coincidentally) crusading against evolution, gender equality, environmentalism, separation of church and state, and so on--the whole "culture wars" agenda.

 

Now, back in the day, some of us noted that lesbians had a very low risk of ever contracting HIV, so, by the logic of the fundamentalists, God must really really like lesbians!
image
On a more serious note, others warned that whatever it was that caused AIDS (this back even before HIV was identified) could be spread by and to heterosexuals, too. The fundamentalists shrugged this off, claiming that anyone who got AIDS must have sinned, so they were just getting what was coming to them. By the way, Christian fundamentalists wielded a lot of political clout, especially back in the Reagan era, when AIDS first emerged in the US, and they actively campaigned against education, treatment, and care for anyone who was either HIV+ or at risk. In other words, a
lot
of people died because of those fundamentalists.

 

So now it seems that some fundamentalists are backing off from what was once widely promoted as The Word of God. Nice to see some folks actually...evolve, if just a bit slower than the rest of us. But how can this be? It was the inerrant interpretation of scripture and God's laws/words that presumably guided the hate campaigns against HIV+ patients in the first two decades of the AIDS epidemic. Did God's word change only when the fundamentalists realized what was happening with AIDS in Africa? Is it no longer "God's punishment" when a majority of AIDS patients worldwide are in fact heterosexual? Does God's eternal word actually change--in other words, evolve--upon learning new facts, making new observations?

 

Or maybe they just realized that they lost that battle on the cultural field of war, and rather than admit that they were wrong, have moved on to other battles, e.g., opposition to same-sex marriage, or pushing "creation science" on public schools.

 

Back even before I moved to SF, and I met plenty of people who claimed the Bible endorsed slavery, racism, misogyny, killing gays and lesbians, hating other religions (especially Jews), trashing the environment, imperialism, censorship, the death penalty, war, and just about every other bit of social ugliness you could imagine. All the unchanging, inerrant Word of God.

 

Actually, it was all just some very human (and thus very flawed) interpretations of scripture.

 

-- eaplatt

 

 

Really esay to answer this one. God's Word has NOT changed - period. Where we run into trouble is when people mis-interpret the Word, or take it out ofcontext. That is how cults happen, too. I think we actually agree on the HIV/AIDS point. Yes, there were many fundamentalists who actually believed - andI'm sure some still do -- that this was the punishment for being gay, etc. and as I have clearly stated - I have never subscribed to that belief -- and yetLife Factory thinks I'm a religious fanatic. Go figure.

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