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Is U2 Pro-Evolution?


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zootrabant wrote:

It means that the theory of evolution says that the monkey is not our grandfather(ancestor) but our cousin ...

 

Sorry but I can't agree with something like this. I can't respect, but I can't agree.

 

Well, that's silliness. That's like "respecting" the sky is blue but not "agreeing" that it is. It's a nonsensical stance.

 

Listen, all primates are our relatives. Well, strictly speaking all living things are our relatives. We all share common ancestors. We know this to be true doto the mountain of evidence at our disposal: fossils, genetic information, even experimental data.

 

Again, this is NOT an opinion. This is a fact. Ignore it if you want. It will still remain a fact.

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Hmmm. No so good but better. Now we can start a conversation. So let's go:

 

Nothing is considered ABSOLUTE truth by scientists. Including theorys.

 

Evolution is a fact.

 

Fact is something real.

 

But the evolution is a theory.

 

So if nothing is considered ABSOLUTE truth by scientists and the theory of evolution is one of then, how we can say that the evolution is a fact, is reality?How you can say that I'm questioning the reality that your own arguments (scientifics arguments) say the opposite?

 

A scientific theory never discribes reality. Its discribes a possible reality.

 

Theories were made to be questioned. One day perhaps we will be sure of some theory. See quantum physics for example. It question a lot of things about theNewtonian physics that envolves more than theories. Envolves laws!!!! The quantum physics would be ignorant? I think not.

 

Hmmm. I start to like this conversation.

 

Please man. Don't call me ignorant. This is something that I'm not.

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zootrabant wrote:

Please man. Don't call me ignorant. This is something that I'm not.

 

You are ignorant of the subject we are discussing: evolution. I don't know if you are ignorant IN GENERAL. I can't say, because I don't know you.

 

As I said before, I'm not going to get into a discussion regarding the nature of reality. If you really want to go into the "relativistic-no absolutetruth-no real reality, man" rabbit hole be my guest. I see you started going the quantum mechanics route, and I can tell, again, that you don't knowwhat you are talking about. I implore you, read some more. Educate yourself with these concepts. When you study quantum mechanics make sure you do the math.When you study biology make sure look at the data. When you study science make sure you know what the words "hypothesis", "theory","model", and "law" mean. Good luck in your studies.

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Soda wrote:

zootrabant wrote:

Please man. Don't call me ignorant. This is something that I'm not.

 

You are ignorant of the subject we are discussing: evolution. I don't know if you are ignorant IN GENERAL. I can't say, because I don't know you.

 

As I said before, I'm not going to get into a discussion regarding the nature of reality. If you really want to go into the "relativistic-no absolute truth-no real reality, man" rabbit hole be my guest. I see you started going the quantum mechanics route, and I can tell, again, that you don't know what you are talking about. I implore you, read some more. Educate yourself with these concepts. When you study quantum mechanics make sure you do the math. When you study biology make sure look at the data. When you study science make sure you know what the words "hypothesis", "theory", "model", and "law" mean. Good luck in your studies.
Ok. I will follow your guest. But inquiry is a good start to learn.

 

When you study quantum mechanics make sure you do the math!!!! Please do not discourage me!!!! (its just a joke)

 

I appreciated our conversation. Now I need to go to the college. Have a good night. Peace.
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LifeFactory wrote:

Tracy, what I said, or at least meant, and I apologize for the misunderstanding, is that the schematic--the shape, so to speak--of your "reasoning," mirrors that of a religious fanatic.

 

If we were to sit down, and using the tools of Logic as a mathematical discipline (did you know that it is a mathematical discipline?)--if we were to use those tools to draw/map-out your argumentation, you would see that it does, in fact, mirror the schematic of a religious fanatic-because, you are arguing a tautology, which is what fanatics also do.

 

This is not to say that you ARE a fanatic--I have no idea what you would actually do if you felt your spiritual back was against a wall.

 

But, you have to acknowledge that you do, in fact, think in tautologies. No getting around that. And, if you are unable to break out of that, then your options are very limited if things were really to "come down to a line" for you.

 

I respect your right to hold your views. I do not, however, respect the views themselves.

I can understand where you would draw the parallel with fanaticism - especially given that you don't know me personally or see how I live. Iguess if I had not learned tolerance I probably would be a real fundamentalist. But my Christian walk is based upon the concept that Jesus spent most of Histime hanging out with the whores, lepers and tax collectors - the dregs of society, if you will -- because His first and most important message was for us tolove one another - regardless. Don't take that the wrong way - I'm not trying to say that I think anyone on here belongs to the dregs of society -it's just an illustration. People really don't get how I can be opposed to homosexuality from a Biblical standpoint, but still love my nephew who isgay and have no problem welcoming him and his partner into my home. But my first job is to love and show compassion. If he ever asks me what I think, I'lltell him, but it won't change that he is family.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your honesty. Cheers! :)

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zootrabant
wrote:

It means that the theory of evolution says that the monkey is not our grandfather(ancestor) but our cousin ...

 

Sorry but I can't agree with something like this. I can't respect, but I can't agree.

Monkeys, apes, orangutans and humans share the same pre-historic ancestor from which all these forms evolved (sp?). While the left branch becamemonkeys, the right one was humans. Yet, you should bear in mind that, like the rest of the species, humans also didn't evolve linearly. Much like in thecase with the common ancestor, the human-branch would give new, smaller branches. Some of them would die out (much like Neanderthals), but one.. just one ofthem evolved to homo sapiens with then later became homo sapiens sapiens - the human.

 

These nice graphs show how it looked:

http://www.ecotao.com/holism/evosummary.gif

http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/gctext/Inquiries/Inquiries_by_Unit/Unit_5_files/image017.jpg

 

[/font]

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I wonder if Zootrabant also discards heliocentrism, for example :/

 

After all, it's nothing but a "theory", a "fact" based on observations and mathematical calculations.

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Evolution=living things on earth share the same common ancestor.

Creationism= A supernatural being created all the living things on earth, share the same common creator.

 

I don't see how the earth began, affects how you study living things. You can look at photosynthesis, and say, wow, evolution at work, or wow, intelligentlife, made photosynthesis work the way it does. I do think though, it can effect how you look at other people, how you treat others, respect for others.

 

Evolution doesn't tell you how to live and not live your life, doesn't give you rules to live by, restrictions, it's pretty much do whatever topreserve your own interests, step on whoever is in your way to get what you want. Nothing to keep you from doing whatever you want, of course it's moreappealing than a religion that tells you what is right and wrong. It's no wonder people burst into schools or wherever and open fire without a concern withwho they're killing. It's not fundamentalist Christians who are gunning down people in strip malls and schools is it?

 

The original title of Darwin's book "The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection: The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle forLife."

 

The real fact is no one was around to witness anything about the beginning of life as we know it, so yes, evolution is, and always will be a theory, an idea ofhow it might have happened. Even if you find things that "prove" it might be possible, no witnesses, no proof. Christians at least admit it takesfaith to believe in what they do.

 

Some of the "facts" used to prove evolution over the past few decades have proven to be false, inaccurate or admitted hoaxes. A pig's tooth wasone "fact" to prove evolution only a few decades ago. Some people even glued pepper moths to trees to prove evolution.

 

I just think the idea that it took an intelligent being to start life, holds more water, than it all just happened on accident by random chance. Youwouldn't believe the faces on Mount Rushmore were carved by natural causes, just random erosion, rainfall, slowly over millions of years chipping away andmaking the faces of 4 US Presidents, so why would anyone believe their body just happened to be the way it is over millions of years of time, chance and randommutation with no intelligence behind it?

 

It's wrong to force religion down people's throats, but okay to force atheism down people's throats.

 

What happens if one theory goes against another? Evolution goes against the theory that over time things deteriorate, break down, reduce, get worse.

 

Evolutionary scientists don't even agree on how it happened.

 

Science is based on observation, first and foremost, what you see, feel, touch, test. You can't test evolution, as it allegedly took millions of years towork.

 

What you can test, humans, have human babies. Monkeys, have baby monkeys, turtles give birth to turtles. There is fact, that you can see, so when someone canfind, watch, and observe a turtle mutating into an alligator, then we can call evolution a fact. Until then, theory.

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hmtmkmkm wrote: I do think though, it can effect how you look at other people, how you treat others, respect for others.

 

Evolution doesn't tell you how to live and not live your life, doesn't give you rules to live by, restrictions, it's pretty much do whatever to preserve your own interests, step on whoever is in your way to get what you want. Nothing to keep you from doing whatever you want, of course it's more appealing than a religion that tells you what is right and wrong. It's no wonder people burst into schools or wherever and open fire without a concern with who they're killing. It's not fundamentalist Christians who are gunning down people in strip malls and schools is it?.

 

Please read Sagan's "Demon Haunted World." Or anything (un-apologetic) that deals with how science works.

 

No, evolution does not give you easy little formulas for how life began or what to do once you get here. Some of us don't need a the threat of hell to makeus want to act in a way that will promote both the survival of our families as well as the survival of our society. Your view of humankind is pretty sad if youthink we need a divine mandate in order to know how to live. Mankind has evolved to have communities and shared values that better ensure survival. Don'tbe deluded. We are all animals with self-preservation instincts. Even christians. How else can you explain the evils done in the name of jesus?

 

What a weak argument you've produced. How would you know what the shooters at Columbine believed about god? Plenty of christians over the ages havemurdered in the name of jesus. Just like muslims who are murdering in the name of allah.

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