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Is U2 Pro-Evolution?


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Isn't it just great how some people discount science. They are also the first ones who want science to cure them as well...Anyways....The fact that somepeople still believe the earth is 5-10000 years old is proof enough of evolution. They are stuck in neanderthal-land. Going off of a book with a dubious andun-documented history at best for anything is scary. Taking it literally and at face-value is even worse. But then again, that what got us 8 years of Bush.God gave you a brain, use it to think, that is why (S)he gave it to you. Not to mindlessly follow a manuscript that is probably at best 25% true. For all youknow this is just entertainment to whatever "God" is. We're nothing more than a comedy show most likely.

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Tracy M wrote:

LifeFactory wrote:

Tracy, what I said, or at least meant, and I apologize for the misunderstanding, is that the schematic--the shape, so to speak--of your "reasoning," mirrors that of a religious fanatic.

 

If we were to sit down, and using the tools of Logic as a mathematical discipline (did you know that it is a mathematical discipline?)--if we were to use those tools to draw/map-out your argumentation, you would see that it does, in fact, mirror the schematic of a religious fanatic-because, you are arguing a tautology, which is what fanatics also do.

 

This is not to say that you ARE a fanatic--I have no idea what you would actually do if you felt your spiritual back was against a wall.

 

But, you have to acknowledge that you do, in fact, think in tautologies. No getting around that. And, if you are unable to break out of that, then your options are very limited if things were really to "come down to a line" for you.

 

I respect your right to hold your views. I do not, however, respect the views themselves.

I can understand where you would draw the parallel with fanaticism - especially given that you don't know me personally or see how I live. I guess if I had not learned tolerance I probably would be a real fundamentalist. But my Christian walk is based upon the concept that Jesus spent most of His time hanging out with the whores, lepers and tax collectors - the dregs of society, if you will -- because His first and most important message was for us to love one another - regardless. Don't take that the wrong way - I'm not trying to say that I think anyone on here belongs to the dregs of society - it's just an illustration. People really don't get how I can be opposed to homosexuality from a Biblical standpoint, but still love my nephew who is gay and have no problem welcoming him and his partner into my home. But my first job is to love and show compassion. If he ever asks me what I think, I'll tell him, but it won't change that he is family.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your honesty. Cheers!
:)

 

 

 

Hi Tracy. Thanks for the cheers, and likewise! smile.gif

 

I have been thinking about your reply above, and appreciate your taking the time to give one.

 

I like very much that "Love" is the escape-hatch, of sorts, that allows one--if not to break out of the feedback loop of a tautology--at least totranscend it rather than spiraling down into the hatefulness that is the other possibility when faced with a fundamental decision, under pressure.

 

I guess I just have one question: If you love your newphew despite his being gay, why hold onto the biblical condemnation of homosexuality at all? Why doesit matter?

 

If love transcends everything, then doesn't it transcend the bible too?

 

Thanks!

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Hey, LifeFactory,

 

You've asked a good question. Again, for me, it's really simple (for others, perhaps not so much). Jesus' example was to "love the sinner -but not the sin." That's also been stated by some as "good people sometimes do bad things." I will be the first to admit that sometimes,because we are human and therefore far from perfect, that this can be a tall order. As much as I sometimes wish I could just say my nephew's life choicedoesn't matter -- I simply can't. What I can do is continue to pray for him, and continue to show love and tolerance in the meantime. The key is that Iam not the one to judge - only God can do that. I'm far from perfect and I've done some pretty stupid things in my lifetime, too - particularly beforeI became saved -- but at the very end, there is grace and forgiveness - for anyone who CHOOSES it. My nephew may one day choose it - but I am not servinganyone by hitting him on the head with the Bible and telling him he is condemned.... that would only push him further away from any opportunities to re-examinehis choices.

 

It's not really much different than praying for the rest of my family who are unsaved - but sometimes having to "bite the bullet" as it were.When my mom was dying, I was slipping into the ICU and ministering her when I could. To this day, I do not honestly know if she accepted Jesus into her heartand is now in heaven - and I won't know that until I get there myself. When my six-year-old asked if Grandma was in heaven, I had to answer honestly andtell her that I "hoped so," and that we had to just go on believing that we did our part to hopefully steer her in the right direction -- and we haveto trust that she will be there at the end.

 

I have to go on knowing that God has a plan for everyone - my nephew, my mom, my kids, me - and know that things will happen in His time. When I became aChristian, I initially felt I had to be a "model" Christian right away - which meant no smoking, no drinking, etc. etc. Then I realized that thosethings are pretty "superficial" when it comes to getting at the real core of changing one's life to follow Jesus. I can remember praying andsaying, "Jesus, I know I should quit smoking because my body is a temple and I'm supposed to set an example.. and His answering back with, "yeah,you're right... but there are other things that are more important for you do deal with first. When the time is right, I will help you with that." AndHe did. I still like my wine with dinner and I can cuss as good as the next guy when I feel physical pain.... but it's all a daily struggle and journey...it's not a hill, it's a mountain.....

 

...and at the end of the day, I can be secure in the knowledge that Jesus can hate my sins - but still love me!

 

Sorry for the lengthy answer, but I will admit it is a tough question to answer in a way that someone who does not share this particular faith can understand(and that's NOT a shot at you, just recognition that our beliefs are different.)

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LifeFactory wrote:

No, no...I understand that, Tracy. Thank you.

I'm glad my answer made sense, even if you don't agree!

 

It's funny, but this topic came up at dinner with friends last night and I realized I need to clarify something. Although we know that God will forgive uswhen we mess up (of course He will! He's "Dad" afterall!), we have to be careful to not use that as "permission" to sin. Admittedly,some Christians use God's forigveness as an excuse to not bother trying to climb the mountain - it's not. In other words, I can't go around withthe attitude that "I can do whatever I want because God will forgive me anyway." The key is that we need to continue to strive to get it right...knowing that God has our back when we blow it.

 

Thanks for your willingness to listen to another perspective.

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I think using the ability of reason, asking questions constantly, make us closer to understand faith. I want to mean, I can't take knolege from someone whotells me: "This is the way the things are". I have to find it myself. That's the reason for me to have a mind.

Evolution theory, religion knolege, in my opinion, the two of them are not definitly right. Like the song I have a hole in my heart. I feel something ismissing. There is something else outside I have to figure out. When the time comes, I hope I'll do.

 

Love is evolution very best day, for me it means that out of any discussion, get hang of the love, love is so powerful thing, love is a power. If we evolute tolove, "Happy day".

 

Bono is a very inteligent man, I like U2 because beyond the wonderful music, I discover those lyrics. It makes you think, it's not just a simple message.Sometimes he is inocent like a child, but even Einstein had those moments.

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Tracy M wrote:

 

2. It is very possible - heck, likely, even - that God made many creatures and tried different things -- and created some of them to evolve over time - before he got round to creating man. Why not - it`s His world and He can do what He wants. Nothing is impossible for God. Look at it this way - why, after making all kinds of flora and fauna, did God choose to give speech only to manÉ

 

 

Humans aren't the only animals with speech. Whales give themselves names and can rhyme.

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thezoostation1 wrote:

Humans aren't the only animals with speech. Whales give themselves names and can rhyme.

Many animals have sophisticated language structures. And--for those that argue that language is what isrequired for self-awareness and knowledge that one occupies a place in time (two things humans like to think is special to them...)…well, elephants havecemeteries where they bury their dead, where they engage in ritual as a herd around the grave, and to where they return repeatedly throughout the year to payhomage to those which passed. Rather sophisticated activity. There alsoappears to be some suggestion they can distinguish between a death by natural causes and a horrid one from poachers cutting the tusks out of the face andleaving the animal to rot slowly to death.

Read the amazing book: "When Elephants Weep."

 

Grey parrots have both the emotional development and capacity as well as the language capacity of a three yearold human child…anyone ever notice how sophisticated toddlers can be? And, parrots can and do learn human speech, and can build words and manipulate sentencestructures on their own, rather than just repeating from rote memory.

 

Both elephants and parrots can outlive humans.

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